Great set but I'm slightly surprised Sir Mick Jagger's Swastika T-Shirt survived the iPlayer censor

rze99

Remixed (by Bob Clearmountain) this '78 set from the Stones sounds great at the time they were competing with punk and new wave bands for being edgy. Great set but I'm slightly surprised Sir Mick Jagger's Destroy Swastika T-Shirt survived the iPlayer sensor in these oh so sensitive times.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0cgmzns/the-rolling-stones-some-girls-live-in-texas

idiotwindow

Do you mean censor?

rze99

idiot window said:

Do you mean censor?

Oops yes!

roberty

idiotwindow

It's obviously an anti-fascist T-shirt (apparently designed by the late Vivienne Westwood) but it seems not everyone appreciates that.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/slowthai-apologises-for-confusing-fans-with-anti-fascist-t-shirt-that-bears-nazi-swastika-3281407

rze99

roberty said:

Yes it certainly divided opinion over the ages but I guess that was the point - to shock - and it did back in the 70s and right through to the present day. Even as an ex punk I wouldn’t feel comfortable wearing anything with a swastika on it today. 

DefaultM

idiotwindow said:

It's obviously an anti-fascist T-shirt (apparently designed by the late Vivienne Westwood) but it seems not everyone appreciates that.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/slowthai-apologises-for-confusing-fans-with-anti-fascist-t-shirt-that-bears-nazi-swastika-3281407

“Nows my chance to act offended!”

rze99

Good job Price Harry didn’t try it 

Funkfingers

… nor Hindus, Buddhists or Jains. 

The symbol predates Nazism by centuries. 

The original Aryans were from the First Persian Empire. Brown-skinned people with dark hair and eyes. (The blond(e) hair and blue eyes fixation is Nordic.)

The terms Aryan and non-Aryan are comparable us and them. In group and out group. The subtext being that "we" consider ourselves superior to "them". This was probably the little piece of Persian culture that was being appropriated.

Adolf and his followers really got their mythology mixed up, didn't they? He was a crappy painter too!

roberty

rze99 said:

roberty said:

Yes it certainly divided opinion over the ages but I guess that was the point - to shock - and it did back in the 70s and right through to the present day. Even as an ex punk I wouldn’t feel comfortable wearing anything with a swastika on it today. 

Yeah it's not the time for it now. "Don't cut yourself on all that edge, bro"

Kittyfrisk

rze99 said:

Good job Price Harry didn’t try it 

Apparently it wasn't poor Harry's fault, wicked William & Kate made him do it... FFS.

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

Adolf and his followers really got their mythology mixed up, didn't they?

Some of the pseudo-historical/cultural/racial theories the Nazis believed - and actually expended supposedly 'scientific' research on - are quite bonkers, real Indiana Jones-type stuff. Unsurprisingly, none of it stands up to any modern scrutiny whatever.

I think it will take a very long time before the swastika is an acceptable symbol in Western culture again, if it ever is - it's awkward even in an anti-fascist context. I saw the film JoJo Rabbit recently - which is an anti-Nazi satire, if you haven't seen it - and was slightly puzzled to find that it has attracted criticism for its use of Nazi ideology as a source of humour. Wrongly in my opinion, it's a brilliant film.

Funkfingers

Nazi ideology as a source of humo(u)r?

That forms a good part of Mel Brooks' career! 

Post-1945, arty farty types have used the swastika as provocation. This thread refers to the Westwood Destroy t-shirt design. Siouxsie appeared onstage wearing an armband. There is a section in The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle where Sidney Vicious wanders around the Jewish Quarter of Paris similarly attired. All pretty puerile, really.

IMO, it is still better to speak openly about the Third Reich than to hope that not mentioning it will spare the emotions of the victims. Ideally, the human race learns from the errors of the past and takes measures to prevent them happening again. So far, we are not doing very well.