Dumbleator Active FX Buffer Users?

ryanverbena

I'm very new to this arena so don't really know much, but I have read that Dumble style amps require such devices for whatever design reasons. There were even several posts on TGP that suggested using one even if not using effects in the loop. Having gone down a bit of a rabbit hole, I still find myself none the wiser as to whether I should look into buying one. 

They are pretty expensive pieces of kit, so just wanted to hear if anyone had an opinion or advice in using these? Or if they are necessary at all really. 

I have a Two Rock TS1 incoming tomorrow (the 2020 version, not the current one with a tube buffered reverb). I run a relatively short signal chain - usually a tuner, two drive pedals, looper into the front of the amp, and then the FX loop would have a Flint and a delay. 

exocet

The Dumblator is simply a valve driven buffered fx loop.
Some fx pedals benefit / others are quite OK in an unbuffered loop.
I'd say that your better off with a buffered fx loop but you don't need a Dumblator.
Fuchs used to manufacture a couple of pedals under the "Plush" sub brand. One (Verberator) included a digital reverb effect in addition to the buffered loop. The other was just a buffered loop. I've got the reverb version - it works well.
Then there's the Ceriatone options - C-Lator and Kleinulator (one is valve, the other is solid state). I think they both include a switchable treble response that can be useful in taming the high end response which can be a little on the harsh side on some dumble overdrive cicuits...especially the non HRM variety which I believe the TS-1 is one of? Is it the Robben Ford amp? Not sure if Two Rock built in a low pass filter "post overdrive" on that amp to do the same thing.
Get the amp first, play around with it. See if your pedals work then go from there.

ryanverbena

@exocet cheers mate that's very useful. Wisdom

exocet

Solid State (low cost option). 

https://ceriatone.com/klein-ulator/

Valve Option - more expensive.

https://ceriatone.com/c-lator/

ryanverbena

I'm just reading now that these the C-lator/kleinulator are intended for amps without an effects loop all together, like the original Dumbles. The TS1 does have an FX loop, it's just unbuffered.

So maybe just a typical buffer pedal in the loop will do the trick.

exocet

ryanverbena said:

I'm just reading now that these the C-lator/kleinulator are intended for amps without an effects loop all together, like the original Dumbles. The TS1 does have an FX loop, it's just unbuffered.

So maybe just a typical buffer pedal in the loop will do the trick.

I think the wording is not great on Ceriatone site - they mean "no buffered loop on Dumble amps".

All of the Dumble amp circuits that I've seen documented featured only passive "break jacks" in the signal path between the preamp and power amp sections. The Ceriatone stuff is very much designed to plug into amps like this.

The TS-1 now appears to have buffered fx loop as standard - not sure if they added this with more recent versions of that amp?

https://www.two-rock.com/amps/ts1/

ryanverbena

@exocet yup the newer TS1 has the buffered loop, mine is the previous model without. From the manual:

"NOTE: This model does not utilize a full (input and output) buffered effects loop. For best results, you will need an Effects Loop Interface (ELI1 or ELI2) or similar unit."

exocet

Buffer pedal in loop will be fine - main reasons for buffer are:

1. Level matching - avoid overloading the FX unit connected

2. Impedance matching - in the absence of a buffered loop, there will be an impedance mismatch between the Valve  (High Impedance) and the FX Unit (Low Impedance) - this can impact on the frequency response (treble roll off is typical)

Aidanspaghetti

Could i use the fx send from a Dumbleator as a line out to feed a wet stereo fx setup instead of using a line out box? Or do i need to engage the return also? Just an idea - cant try it out til the weekend...

ToneControl

I had the Ceriatone one.
It didn't do much for me, I'd prefer to use less OD in the amp and do all the FX up front

Aidanspaghetti

@ToneControl did you not find it very useful as a master volume?

ToneControl

Aidanspaghetti said:

@ToneControl did you not find it very useful as a master volume?

my Dumble clones already have master volume

I think it was a popular way to get some extra tweaks, but to be honest  the D-clones I have have the most extensive and complicated set of knobs already, including the HRM trimmers

What controls are on the Two Rock TS1? is it a full Dumble clone?

Alex335

Two rock Bloomfield drive user here! 

So my findings are I found the amp almost unusable without something plugged into the loop, the clean was great but overdrive was overly bright and harsh, just listen to most of the online demos.. 

even just running a 20ft cable from the send to return was enough to take the harshness out of the sound and make the amp tbd tone monster it was intended to be. 

I usually run a buffered reverb and delay in the loop, I’ve tried the ceriatone kleinulator but preferd the tone without it, it’s also quite a fussy thing to dial in but does give you more tone options with the bright switches. 

My thoughts are these amps are designed to have something running in the loop as they are nigh and day different without! 

Hope this helps