What is a "British" guitar? (upcoming NGD)

Tannin

Well it looks as though this project is going to be stillborn.

I've just heard from Brook that they don't work on Fridays (the only day I have available to get down there) and that they are no longer doing exports at all. But I'm welcome to go and see them on a Thursday or a Monday if I'm around. (What would be the point?)

I may be able to rejig my travel bookings to go and see Stoll near Frankfurt instead (another maker I have long had my eye on). That would be a completely different guitar, of course. 

The third and final guitar I have on my radar is another Maton - I know exactly what I want with that one - but I hear that Andy Allen (who builds all of Maton's custom shop orders) has health issues and is off work again until further notice. So that one is out too.

Dunno what I'm going to do now.

Mellish

@Tannin ; blimey, you're not having any good luck, are you!

Take that trip to Fylde or give them a bell in advance or email to see what they can do. 

 

Tannin

Update: I have rearranged my travel plans and am now able to visit Brook on the Monday morning. As for the export arrangements, Lee at Project Music has assured me that he will be able to look after that, so the Brook plan is on again.

Very pleased to have that sorted, I'd pretty much set my heart on a Brook.

(Yes, I want a Stoll too, but that can be a few more years down the track.)

Mellish

Back on then.

Never tried a Brook. Tried a couple of Atkin's. Not for me, and I quickly put them back. 



 

Tannin

I always get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Atkins are guitars in the Gibson mould (Meaning that in a nice way - for all the bad stuff we say about Gibson they didn't get to be who they are without doing a lot of things right.) People who own them absolutely love them, and most people who don't like them. I've not tried an Atkin either but I have never yet played an acoustic Gibson that I liked. (But I haven't played a Dove - with maple back and long scale, I reckon I'd like them.) 

I can't remember now if I said this in a PM, or in this thread, or in another thread, but would you believe that here in Oz I have never even seen a British guitar let alone played one other than the (solid body electric) Burns Flyte the lead player had in a band I played bass for in the late 1980s. Weird little guitar! He got some great sounds out of it - though to be fair he is one of those people who could get a great sound out of a rusty hairpin. 

Anyway, I'm going with Brook. I have every expectation of it being a lovely instrument, but what's the worst that can happen? (Ans: I hate it and sell it here in Oz at a loss. No big deal. And anyway, I'll probably love it.)

Mellish

With me and the couple of Atkin's, I felt nothing when I held them, nothing when I strummed them. Good guitars, I'm sure, just so wrong for me.

I've spent so long playing Gibson and Martin that they're a part of me, and I  struggle to bond with any other acoustic brand. 

 

Ungulate

Go to Project music & you can play Atkin, Martin & Brook if you're lucky...as I was....I bought the Brook :=)

bertie

the voices in Mellish head said:

".............you need to buy a Brook, you need to buy a Brook..........................."

what you need is a second hand one   

Mellish

bertie said:

the voices in Mellish head said:

".............you need to buy a Brook, you need to buy a Brook..........................."

what you need is a second hand one   

And where would I get *that* I wonder?

 

bertie

Mellish said:

bertie said:

the voices in Mellish head said:

".............you need to buy a Brook, you need to buy a Brook..........................."

what you need is a second hand one   

And where would I get *that* I wonder?

 

dunno,  but if I find out,  I'll let you know

Modellista

I know you seem to have set your heart on Brook, but that 400-mile, 8-hour London-Devon round trip is an awful trek.

The fact that you're up in Carlisle for two days with Fylde right on your doorstep really does need to be recognised.  That's a whole extra day you could have on your holiday.

I would suggest either going north, or south-west, but not both.  Attempting to do both means you'll see an awful lot of the inside of a rail carriage and not a lot else.

Tannin

Cheers @Modellista, I don't have any spare days in the north at all. I've scratched the London bit and will now go from Exeter direct to Settle (express train, one change at Leeds). I will indeed be seeing an awful lot of the countryside from a rail carriage window!

That's actually the plan - prior to arriving in Devon I'll be travelling by train from Croatia through Slovenia, Austria, Switzerland, and France, then ferry to Portsmouth. My friend is going to pick me up there (he works not far away)  and after a couple of days at his place we will spend the Sunday motoring around Devon and stay overnight down there. Then off to Brook first thing on the Monday morning before he drops me at Exeter to catch the train just after lunch.

After that, the plan - indeed the whole point of going north at all - is to spend most of the following two days on trains before flying back to Zagreb.

PS: I am amazed at the stupid price of trains in the UK! Exeter to Settle is close to $800! (more than £400.) Strewth! OK, that's first class and there are ways to get discounts if you book early but not too early, nevertheless it is ridiculous. It's of no consequence to me as I have a Eurail Pass which gives me train travel (almost) anywhere in Europe on any 10 days I please, - and yes I checked, it does work in the UK - I'm just amazed at the crazy price. 

Mellish

Pack a camera and take some shots of Blighty wilderness from the carriage window for the album. 

You can't do it all cos you haven't got the time, but there'll still be plenty to see. 

I keep saying it, but enjoy your stay when it comes. 

And we were kidding about the weather, it's not *that* bad! 


 

Modellista

@Tannin that itinerary makes more sense, Devon is lovely if you get good weather.

Yes it's £400 first class Exeter-Settle, but standard class is £100.  For a 6-hour journey from one end of the country to the other that seems ok to me.  I've never bothered with first class - the main problem with the trains here is they often don't run on time, or even turn up at all.  First class is still subject to the same difficulties of course.  Although you do get a nice bouncy chair and a free bacon sandwich.

Rail travel in the country seems to average around £15 per hour which again, seems fair.  Indeed to get the best prices you have to book in advance, much the same as flying.

If you drove from Exeter to Settle it would be half a tank of gas, about £50, plus £10 for tyres and consumables, plus the cost of buying/hiring the car in the first place.  And you would exchange lazily gazing out the train window for concentrating on the tarmac of the M6.  

I'm not entirely convinced the Exeter-Leeds leg will be particularly photogenic, however once you leave Settle the Yorkshire Dales section will be stunning if you get the weather.  If you did have the time, Glasgow to Fort William is the best rail journey in the country.

artiebear

Not been around here for a long time @tannin, sounds like a great trip. Carlisle is my home City and I find myself back here  dealing with family stuff for a long time to come.

Three great builders of note, Fylde about 15 miles south, ( a 15 min train journey from Carlisle  and a 10 min walk to the workshop ) Haydn Williams, about a half hour out ( check his website, search H J Williams guitars ) and Stefan Sobell ( about 45 mins drive ). 

I have guitars by all three and know them all pretty well.

Fylde are the quintessentially English guitar played by everyone who is anyone in the folk and rock scene( but not exclusively English ) I have a euro, braz custom, which is coming up to 18 years old ( swapped it for my original anniversary model, same shape different woods after finishing a gig at a festival Roger B/ Fylde was at. It is as lovely as it was back then )

Haydn Williams is a ridiculously talented guy crafting  guitars for the last 20 plus years both acoustic and electric . His acoustics are sublime, had a spruce / Blackwood which got stolen , now have a German / Honduran modified dread which is a killer.

Stefan Sobell, well what can anyone say ? Along with many other guitars, I have been playing an adi / braz Sobell for the last 16 years.  Stefan's stuff is not cheap but somewhat unique and brilliant.

You are stepping off the train into an area of very special guitar creativity ( I nearly forgot to mention Overwater Basses which are made right here in town ).

Oh and by the way, there is a decent real ale bar right in the train station. ( welcome to the ancient kingdom of Cumbria ).  
 

BigPaulie

bertie said:

Cig35 said:

Two “out-of-the-box” suggestions for wood that could be possible for back/sides: Rowan or birch. Both are as far as I know native and have distinct significance in Celtic mythology. I’ve seen a couple of smaller guitars using them but haven’t tried one, so I don’t know if the suggestion is good or not.

back / sides are never the issue, al sorts of great tonewoods grow natively  -  its finding a decent wood for the top

I've wondered about this.

I live within a 5 minute walk of a commercial forestry plantation where the predominant species is Sitka spruce. There's also a fair amount of maple in there. As far as I'm aware most of the lumber goes to https://www.wcwoodfuels.co.uk/
I'm also within a 10 minute walk of https://www.ardgowan.co.uk/ which has many native species including oak, walnut and ash. Every year several very mature trees succumb to the elements and either lie to rot or get chopped for firewood.

I imagine this situation is repeated throughout Great Britain.

So it's clear that the species for a truly "British" (whatever that means) guitar exist all over these islands.

I'd love to be able to get my hands on the timber to have a truly Scottish guitar made from species available within a 1 mile radius of my home.

Tannin

Cheers @Modellista I've never been to the UK (or indeed anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere bar Japan and just-barely-northern Sri Lanka. I've always taken the view that it is better to get to know a small area well than to barely scratch the surface of a lot of different places. I've spent much of the last 20 years travelling around Australia (which is about the same size as Europe) doing wildlife photography, only recently branching out to Sri Lanka, where I've now been three times and coming up for 4. 
Now up pops this unexpected trip to the UK! Mostly I'm going to see my friend (we grew up together and played in bands and stuff) but screw it - why not slip down to Brook and order a guitar? It's not as if I'll have the opportunity to do that any old year.
The wisdom of the Internet is that Glasgow - Fort William trip is the most scenic train trip in Britain, with the loop around the Cumbrian coast said to be second only to that. But I don't have time for the former and am happy to settle for the latter. (No pun intended.) 

Tannin

Hi @artiebear, good to see you back here and I hope your family duties run as smoothly as can be expected. 

That is a great collection of instrument making talent in such a small area. I read your post with a good deal of interest. 

As mentioned earlier, my time is very limited (I'm actually supposed to be in Croatia with the in-laws for these six days) so I won't make it to Flyde - and in truth if I had the time I wouldn't go if I wasn't at least seriously considering ordering an instrument. My expectation is that I'll order a Brook on the Monday morning and head up towards your neck of the woods that evening. Then spend the next couple of days seeing the sights by train. I'm changing trains at Carlisle twice so that notion of the pub in the station might be the very thing!

Kilgore

Tannin said:

PS: I am amazed at the stupid price of trains in the UK! Exeter to Settle is close to $800! (more than £400.) Strewth! OK, that's first class and there are ways to get discounts if you book early but not too early, nevertheless it is ridiculous. It's of no consequence to me as I have a Eurail Pass which gives me train travel (almost) anywhere in Europe on any 10 days I please, - and yes I checked, it does work in the UK - I'm just amazed at the crazy price. 

First Class just guarantees you a seat. 

Tannin

@BigPaulie, what a shame to waste that beautiful timber.

I have a similar notion to you. I've mentioned this before here (sorry!) but we have heaps of Silver Wattle growing on the property. We cut some down now and then before they damage fences, and others fall down every so often. (Like many acacias they are fairly short lived.)  Silver Wattle is said to be very similar to Blackwood tonally and from the point of view of workability. It tends not to be used much for fine furniture or instruments simply because there is plenty of Blackwood, which is darker coloured and more popular for that reason. 

So one of these days I should put it to the test: take some Silver Wattle from our property and have a guitar made from it. You could use it for the whole instrument - Blackwood is best known for back and sides but it is excellent for necks, and is often used for tops as well (very similar to an all-mahogany or all-Koa guitar), no reason not to use Silver Wattle the same way. It's probably a bit soft for a fretboard or a bridge plate, but for those we could use any of two or three eucalypt species on the property, or Drooping Sheoak. 

Silver Wattles at home: