How much?!

knuckleberryfinn

I just went into a local shop, which usually has a pretty poor range of virtually nothing, only to find that they have a bunch of vintage Fenders, Marshalls and a Gibson they are selling on behalf of the widow of a local amp tech.  I asked about the early 70s non-master volume Vibrolux Reverb and they said two grand.  How much do you think it's worth?  (Incidentally, I laughed and walked out the door). 

jpfamps

All Vibrolux reverbs are non MV.

A 70s Vibrolux Reverb sells for around £1000-1200 depending on condition, assuming no major issues (changed speakers etc).

It's easy to criticize the pricing of this, however it sounds like a) the shop doesn't usually deal with this type of gear so have no knowledge of what gear actually sells for, & b) it's likely that the amps are being sold on commission and the price is then determined by the owner, who often have an unrealistic opinion of what they are worth.

hotpickups

Time will tell. If it's still there in a month go in and offer them £1200 max. You might get a nice surprise By the way where is the shop

knuckleberryfinn

Ha!  It's Cookes in Norwich.  There are some lovely amps there - a Blackface Super Reverb, BF Bandmaster, a blonde Tremolux, the SF Vibrolux Reverb, a SF Champ, a Gibson GA-80 Varitone (which must be very rare), what looked like an 18 watt Marshall (I don't know anything about Marshalls), and a Plexi.  I only had a quick look so can't vouch for any of it.  

I suppose over-valuing them is a good way of testing the water.  But buying from a non-specialist shop would worry me - the Super Reverb, for example, has a UK voltage transformer (the amp is non-export) sitting loose on top of the reverb tank, and from the very quick peep I had in the back it seems to be wired up via a junction box whose terminals are exposed.

hotpickups

knuckleberryfinn said:

Ha!  It's Cookes in Norwich.  There are some lovely amps there - a Blackface Super Reverb, BF Bandmaster, a blonde Tremolux, the SF Vibrolux Reverb, a SF Champ, a Gibson GA-80 Varitone (which must be very rare), what looked like an 18 watt Marshall (I don't know anything about Marshalls), and a Plexi.  I only had a quick look so can't vouch for any of it.  

I suppose over-valuing them is a good way of testing the water.  But buying from a non-specialist shop would worry me - the Super Reverb, for example, has a UK voltage transformer (the amp is non-export) sitting loose on top of the reverb tank, and from the very quick peep I had in the back it seems to be wired up via a junction box whose terminals are exposed.

Of course a non experienced shop could work the other way and get a real bargain Although quite rare these days when they have the internet to refer to 

slate

Do you know which local amp tech it is that passed away?

knuckleberryfinn

No idea.  Now I think about it, the shop might have said that he worked on his own amps rather than that he was a tech.  I wasn't really listening as I was drooling over the amps.

ICBM

Like jpfamps I would say a grand for a typical, clean example with no major issues, up to about £1200 for the same thing but fully overhauled (cap job etc).

Be aware that "serviced" as some shops call it often does not extend to a cap job, and at that age they really need it. "New valves throughout" can actually be a *downgrade*, as well - clean original examples may well have their original valves all working fine. New valves + no new caps = what else did the tech miss?

stickyfiddle

I worked as a saturday boy in there when I was 17. Worst job I ever had, though I guess that's fairly standard for a saturday job. Not a great shop tbh, but good staff (back then at least) and did me a great deal on my Paisley Tele.

I always got the impression the boss had very little clue about guitar gear - more of a DJ/PA salesman.

jpfamps

knuckleberryfinn said: 

I suppose over-valuing them is a good way of testing the water.  But buying from a non-specialist shop would worry me - the Super Reverb, for example, has a UK voltage transformer (the amp is non-export) sitting loose on top of the reverb tank, and from the very quick peep I had in the back it seems to be wired up via a junction box whose terminals are exposed.

The amp should not be sold in this condition. All mains should be double insulated from the user.

jpfamps

ICBM said:

Like jpfamps I would say a grand for a typical, clean example with no major issues, up to about £1200 for the same thing but fully overhauled (cap job etc).

Be aware that "serviced" as some shops call it often does not extend to a cap job, and at that age they really need it. "New valves throughout" can actually be a *downgrade*, as well - clean original examples may well have their original valves all working fine. New valves + no new caps = what else did the tech miss?

Agreed.

Recapping an amp of that vintage usually has a more beneficial effect on the sound than replacing the valves.

ICBM

jpfamps said:

knuckleberryfinn said:
But buying from a non-specialist shop would worry me - the Super Reverb, for example, has a UK voltage transformer (the amp is non-export) sitting loose on top of the reverb tank, and from the very quick peep I had in the back it seems to be wired up via a junction box whose terminals are exposed.

The amp should not be sold in this condition. All mains should be double insulated from the user.

I missed that!

Yes, selling an amp in that sort of condition is not acceptable and could expose the shop to a public liability claim if anything goes wrong. The shop should be aware of this and not sell anything like that, whether or not it's actually theirs.

Although (I think!) electrical safety regs are not retrospective on second hand goods, I would never pass anything for sale that wouldn't meet modern regs - or at least a close approximation - or could be a safety hazard. That includes disabling hand-operable voltage selectors like the ones on old export-model Fenders as well.

richardhomer

I wonder if the pricing of old amps has something to do with the price of old guitars? What I mean, is as guitars have reached the levels that most people can't (or don't want to) afford - have dealers seized on amps as being the 'new' vintage craze?

I can understand it with tweed/Brownface/Blackface Fenders/early Marshalls but more prosaic models seem to have become much dearer recently - even though they are relatively common.

I'm nervous about old amps - I appreciate they can be serviced to render them usable - but as ICBM's recent AC30 experience shows - whether you should rely on one for gigging is debatable.

For live use I'd rather have something newer - and may be have an old Princeton or Champ for home use....

ICBM

richardhomer said:

I'm nervous about old amps - I appreciate they can be serviced to render them usable - but as ICBM's recent AC30 experience shows - whether you should rely on one for gigging is debatable.

Exactly, and I *had* overhauled it. Although not perhaps as comprehensively as with hindsight I should have done - but at least as well as most techs would do given the same amp. And I do admit I intended it to be thrashed to show up any remaining flaws! I would be more confident about it now - certainly at more sensible volume I wouldn't worry about it.

That said, some modern amps have design flaws which can render them failure-prone as well...

knuckleberryfinn

richardhomer said:

I wonder if the pricing of old amps has something to do with the price of old guitars? What I mean, is as guitars have reached the levels that most people can't (or don't want to) afford - have dealers seized on amps as being the 'new' vintage craze?

I can understand it with tweed/Brownface/Blackface Fenders/early Marshalls but more prosaic models seem to have become much dearer recently - even though they are relatively common.

I think this is true.  It's very common to see people trying to sell 70s valve PAs (e.g. Sound City) for stupid prices.  A local shop has a Sound City 200W head which they are trying to sell for £700.

ICBM

knuckleberryfinn said:

It's very common to see people trying to sell 70s valve PAs (e.g. Sound City) for stupid prices.  A local shop has a Sound City 200W head which they are trying to sell for £700.

If that's one if the earlier ones with Partridge transformers and has been fully overhauled it's not *too* overpriced... they make great bass amps. Possibly a touch high, but still under half the price of a Hiwatt 200. The KT88s alone are worth £200.

jpfamps

richardhomer said:

I wonder if the pricing of old amps has something to do with the price of old guitars? What I mean, is as guitars have reached the levels that most people can't (or don't want to) afford - have dealers seized on amps as being the 'new' vintage craze?

I can understand it with tweed/Brownface/Blackface Fenders/early Marshalls but more prosaic models seem to have become much dearer recently - even though they are relatively common.

I'm nervous about old amps - I appreciate they can be serviced to render them usable - but as ICBM's recent AC30 experience shows - whether you should rely on one for gigging is debatable.

For live use I'd rather have something newer - and may be have an old Princeton or Champ for home use....

I don't think old amps are expensive when compared to either old guitars or modern amps; indeed there are plenty of examples of amps where the original is cheaper than the reissue (Hiwatt for example).

Since the mid 90s I've gigged 70's and 60's Fender's with no at gig failures. The original filter caps on my SF Twin did explode at a rehearsal, but that was my fault for not changing them.

ICBM

jpfamps said:

Since the mid 90s I've gigged 70's and 60's Fender's with no at gig failures. The original filter caps on my SF Twin did explode at a rehearsal, but that was my fault for not changing them.

Glad to hear I'm not the only lazy bugger with his own amps .

I've only ever had one amp failure at a gig - not even the one I was playing through at the time, it was the keyboard player going through my Traynor 100W combo - and it blew a valve. Pulled the obviously dead one and its pair, changed the fuse, and back in business.

timmysoft

I saw these at the weekend, it's a sweet collection but vastly overpriced and not really in "amp tech" condition. Small box jmp looked nice though.

jpfamps

ICBM said:

jpfamps said:

Since the mid 90s I've gigged 70's and 60's Fender's with no at gig failures. The original filter caps on my SF Twin did explode at a rehearsal, but that was my fault for not changing them.

Glad to hear I'm not the only lazy bugger with his own amps .

To be fair is was nearly 20 years ago, so the caps weren't that old then.

WezV

I can just imagine the conversations this amp tech had with his wife

"I know it cost £1200 of our holiday savings, but it would sell for £2000 any day of the week.  Its an investment if you really think about it"

She just wants the holiday she has been promised for so long