Modes...which chord?

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  • viz said:

    I don't particularly like modes a lot.


    Superb!
    Yeah, I missed that too...well snuck ;)
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  • One of my old blog posts:

    One of the most commonly asked questions is “Which scales work over what chords?” I frequently answer this question by pointing out that it depends entirely on what you consider the “working” to mean?

    What is a scale ‘working’ over a chord anyway?

    Where this may appear not to answer the question at all and be a thoroughly unhelpful digression into the philosophical implications of perception, it’s actually worth thinking about because the whole idea that certain ‘prescribed’ scales work over certain chords, chord types, or chord sequences is actually rendering music and improvisation a sterile by-product of a prescribed approach, and a institutionalised ‘system’.

    Using jazz as an example, there are some people who hate this style of music for whom the whole idea of a scale “working” over a chord or chord sequence (as a player improvises) is as far removed from a good idea as can be! Some may consider a scale ‘working’ over a chord progression to be dull, boring, and most probably the least inspirational music they may be exposed to. While rightfully entitled to their opinion, to what extent is this scale ‘working’ for them? It isn’t, so does the scale ‘work’ with the chord or chord sequence? It depends who is listening, and in the space between the extremes in musical taste (someone who hates jazz, and a jazz lover) the question of whether or not, and if so the extent to which a scale may ‘work’ over a chord, has many, many manifestations of answer, none right nor wrong, none more or less accurate than the previous or last, and the reason the question “Which scales work over what chords?” is ultimately vague, subjective, and with no real definitive answer.

    Clearly it’s a good thing to learn which scales work over certain chords in a conventional sense. This starting point is invaluable for the serious and committed student of improvisation, but as I frequently say to my students, the scales, modes, and arpeggios which are most commonly ‘prescribed’ to work over certain chords and sequences don’t actually serve to help you to sound good. They serve to help you avoid sounding bad (which is not the same thing). Who wants to sound good anyway? Doesn’t the aspiring guitarist want to sound ‘great’? Don’t they want to play with their own voice, unrestricted by any technical or musical constraints that may stand in the way of them truly expressing what they really mean? The idea that someone wants to sound ‘good’ seems like one step too close to mediocrity when compared with the actual level that a player may aspire to!

    Still want to know which scales work over which chords? You can find all that information on the internet.

    Wouldn’t you rather know how to be a great guitarist? To find that out, the only way is to think about what scales ‘working’ over chords means to you, and then asking some better questions about it regarding how you really want to sound.

    Teacher, musician, generally an enthusiastic and peaceful idealist. Run the Contemporary Guitar Performance Workshop education project and the Audio Design Workshop studio. Online guitar and piano/keyboard lessons available over Zoom/Skype. 
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 27080
    edited March 2023
    My take… don’t worry about modes. Concentrate on melodies and then modes become the way of explaining what any given melody is doing. 

    A huge portion of guitarists and think about using modes and scales as “how to play well”, rather than focusing on playing notes that form interesting melodies first and foremost, and worrying about how & why those melodies work later. 

    FWIW when I’m improvising over a set of chords I’m thinking about patterns and chord shapes and how to thread a melody together around those chord tones. I don't believe I’ve ever had a conscious thought about modes while actually playing the guitar. 
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • ZappleZapple Frets: 85
    edited March 2023
    This is still the most simple explanation of modes.... Over to Vinnie Moore!

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKOvlsTvjic&t=1210s

    The modes bit starts at 20mins in


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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    wizbit81 said:
    wizbit81 said:

    I don't particularly like modes a lot.


    What do you like?

    its a mnemonic
    Haha so it is. That completely went over my head! :D
    Took me a while lol 
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  • MrBumpMrBump Frets: 1244
    Zapple said:
    This is still the most simple explanation of modes.... Over to Vinnie Moore!

     
    I'd forgotten how good Vinnie Moore was...
    Mark de Manbey

    Trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/72424/
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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1857

    I don't particularly like modes a lot.


    Rick Comiskey? 

    No idea who that is... sorry
    An online guitar teacher who pushes that phrase when speaking of modes. A lot!
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  • vizviz Frets: 10699
    MrBump said:
    Zapple said:
    This is still the most simple explanation of modes.... Over to Vinnie Moore!

     
    I'd forgotten how good Vinnie Moore was...
    His note choices remind me of @octatonic’s playing btw. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • CrankyCranky Frets: 2630
    edited March 2023
    Late to the game, but my direct response to op would be

    (1) You would play the C major scale for G mixolydian, but not necessarily a C major chord over G.  Playing G, G7, Bdim, maybe F9 or Am/F chord tones over the G would sound good, depending on what you’re going for and what part of the progression you’re in.  That G7 really likes to pull our western ears back to C, so if that’s not where you wanna go then that’s gotta get worked out.

    (2) To me, what makes G mix special is the F.  Or even the B and F together (the major 3rd with the flat 7).  I like to find ways to highlight that note as part of a lead riff, solo note or something like that. 
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