Vintage Amp vs Boutique clones

samzadgan

So...I've now had this Marshall superbass for a few weeks...and i have to say, every time i play through it, i'm completely delighted with the tones.

 

considering the price i got it for...and looking at other amps in the same kind of pedegree, like the superleads, JCM800's, Fender Bassman's etc etc...these seem to all go for prices under or just over £1000.

 

Then you look at boutique amp builders who clone these amps, but obvioulsy add some special sauce and features...but these sell for closer to £2000...I'm talking about amps like Freidman. 

 

My question is what is the view from people...is it better to own the original or the new one...and what would make you pay more (almost double) for a remake over the original?

ThePrettyDamned

I'd rather have an old one.

Also, it's worth remembering some independent built kit is expensive to cover sponsorship, advertisement and paying YouTube endorse folk. Most of the amps are tweaked classic circuits, which is cool but you don't pay for special sauce imo.

Plus those old amps look better.

The reason I'd use an independent builder would be for a custom amp - that's something designed with the customer's own wants in mind. For example, I want a two channel amp that has either a silverface or tweedy clean/cleanish on one side and probably a 6505 lead channel on the other, with an effects loop and half power switch, and a great master volume. This way, I sort of get two classic amps in one that covers my main favourite styles with ease, and is as suitable for bedroom practice as it is gigging.

I'll never need another amp!

Off the shelf kit might come close (even the Chinese 6505+ combo is pretty good) but if I want that specific combination of sounds and features, I need to ask someone to make it for me.

Most boutique stuff from USA isn't really boutique in the sense that it's just a hand made off the shelf model, with no input from the customer. That really just makes them a brand like any other - they have a product line they make and sell.

Mjw will be getting my money, but if I wanted a vintage sounding amp, I'd save and buy the real thing and get it overhauled by a tech. That way, I don't need to worry how close the clone is.

It's also worth remembering how much kit skyrockets in price after tgp find it and rave, though I mostly see this happen with pickup makers.

lustycourtier

I used to be all about vintage, but now Im the opposite. I gig a lot (150+ a year) so doing that with an old amp would require more maintainance imo.

samzadgan

@theprettydamned Independant builders are completely different kettle of fish...agree with you on those. My point is more the semi mass produced stuff that isnt custom made but is an updated version of a vintage amp.

 

@lustycourtier that makes sense...i was thinking there is a bit of that sentiment going around. But would you pay more for a new amp that tries to sound like the vintage one?

ThePrettyDamned

samzadgan;366716" said:

@theprettydamned Independant builders are completely different kettle of fish...agree with you on those. My point is more the semi mass produced stuff that isnt custom made but is an updated version of a vintage amp.  @lustycourtier that makes sense...i was thinking there is a bit of that sentiment going around. But would you pay more for a new amp that tries to sound like the vintage one?

Even in that case, I'd rather have an old one.

You can then send it to someone to make it as reliable as a modern one. In the case of old Marshall amps like yours, reports suggest it'll only need a cap job at some point, because they're built like tanks anyway.

ICBM

There is a certainly a perception that vintage amps are less reliable. That may not be true if they're thoroughly overhauled and improved where necessary - although there is an argument that takes away some of the vintage tone, as well as significantly increasing the price (there can be at least a couple of hundred pounds worth of work in a full rebuild). Expensive modern clones are also often overbuilt in areas which were known to be problematic on the old ones, although again that does tend to change the sound.

I'm not actually very bothered about vintage - there are a lot of old amps I like the sound of, but most have sonic limitations as much as reliability problems so I wouldn't particularly want to own them. I did 'accidentally' acquire an old AC30 recently, but the chances are if I need an amp that size for a gig I'd still probably take my Trem-o-verb because it's just much more flexible as well as more failure-proof.

Si_

I love old vintage amps and I've owned a load of them, I also now own a Friedman (Actually 2). The modern "Boutique" amps aren't really direct replications of those old vintage 60s amps, they often have much needed added features (FX Loops, Multiple Channels, Tone options etc). Also, price wise, yes there expensive, but then so is a 60s Plexi, probably not a great deal in it price wise, and my Friedman comes with a lifetime warranty.

It's the 90/10 argument, You can get 90% of the tone from an amp costing £400 (A DSL for example), but getting that last 10% costs 90% of the price. For some it's worth it, for others it's not. 

knuckleberryfinn

I'd much rather use a modern replica, mostly because one of my hobbies is making them.  This means I know the circuit inside out, making maintenance easy, and also that I don't feel precious about modding any of the amps.  By contrast, I'd never mod a valuable vintage amp.

I don't think vintage amps will ever have the same appeal as vintage guitars because you don't have to feel them.  The feel of a guitar really matters, whereas if the feel of an amp matters, put a vintage handle on your reissue.

ESchap

I find it's the speakers in a vintage cab or combo that probably make the most distinct difference to the overall sound / feel of a properly sorted vintage amp.  That may be good or bad of course depending on how knackered they are.

ToneControl

lustycourtier said:

I used to be all about vintage, but now Im the opposite. I gig a lot (150+ a year) so doing that with an old amp would require more maintainance imo.

I agree, although I'd not like to pay extra for a clone.

Also - some modern clones have more features, or refinements. 

It's perfectly possible to find clones that sound better than the originals for some amps

Currently I only have one vintage amp

no standby, no impedance selection

Sounds lovely though, and I don't think a clone is available

Lew

hmmmm you have to go case by case. You can't just make a blanket rule. I think it's nice to own the real deal just like it is with vintage guitars. It's probably fairer to compare vintage to the used booteek market really.