Rehearsal studios - soundproofing

roundthebend

Not sure which section this thread belongs best in. I'm interested in rehearsal studios, as opposed to recording studios.

I think my area could do with a couple more rehearsal spaces. And something a bit smarter than the current ones which, although usable, are a bit scruffy, cramped, cold, noisy electrics, etc

I'm throwing numbers around to see whether a new facility could cover its costs. There are new warehouse units in the turn which seem very good value. They're typical metal shells, with an office and toilet. Some are high enough to build a mezzanine floor for a lounge area and maybe diversifying with sales of strings, cables, drum sounds, etc.

One thing I'd need to figure out is how to effectively sound proof. Let's say I could fit two rooms into a unit. They need to be quiet enough to not bother each other, and ideally to not bother neighboring businesses - though most use would be evenings when those businesses are dormant.

Is there a cost effective way to build sound proof rooms? Maybe without concrete?

How much space is needed for a rehearsal room?

Who's got an idea of building costs? (UK)

roundthebend

Clearly this channel isn't the most visited or by people who have any input on my questions.

I'm wondering if sandbags would be a nice way to build without needing to pay out for skilled labour, thus saving money. And, it would be relatively simple to clean up after.

flying_pie

Perhaps you might get more response if you move this to the Studio & Recording section

I'm afraid I don't have any more I can contribute

Stuckfast

I'd recommend reading Rod Gervais' book about home studio construction, that'll give you a pretty clear idea of the options. Essentially:

* There's no such thing as soundproofing. You need to think in terms of degrees of attenuation. For example one construction method might attenuate sound by 45dB and another by 50dB. How much is enough?

* The attenuation provided by a structure is only as good as its weakest point. So for example if you built walls out of sandbags, they might be effective (I don't know) but that would be pointless unless the ceiling, doors and any windows are equally good.

* You need to think about ventilation. Any structure that attenuates by a worthwhile amount will be airtight.

Danny1969

I built from scratch 2 large rooms that were used for recording and rehearsal. I along with 2 mates built the walls, the ceilings, did the electrics, the plumbing, the aircon, the fire detectors etc. So I have a very idea of costs and it's not cheap. 

The only thing that stops sound is mass. It's as simple as that. And the lover the frequency, the harder it is to attenuate. An STC rating of a wall means nothing unless you know the frequency as well. A well built wall with unconnected studs, with 2 layers of plasterboard each side though will provide about 60dB of attenuation but only down to around 140Hz or so. In an effort to provide isolation between the 2 live rooms I built them 600mm apart and than filled the whole cavity with rockwool slab laid horizontally, not vertical .... that was so much rockwool it was delivered by an artic lorry and in 2011 cost £5K. 
The isolation was better than any other place in Portsmouth but you could still hear the sub 90hz ish. As I said low frequencies like bass guitar, kick drum etc are very hard to stop.  

So first of all if you build the rooms in a modern steel unit you are at a disadvantage. I looked around for ages before spotting an industrial building made of brick. Remember the only thing that stops sound is mass. If you get a decent building then you have a chance of not annoying your business neighbours too much. 

Internally the easiest way to build the rooms is studwork with multiple layers of plasterboard and lots of acoustic slab rockwool. The rooms have to have heavy doors so 2 of them separated with a gap. 

The rooms I built were twice as high as normal rehearsal rooms and twice the area, and I also built in 2M x 1M skylights for natural light these were more costly to build. Unfortunately material costs have risen dramatically since 2010 so I think you would pay the same for 2 normal sized rehearsal rooms now. 

I was paying £4.25 a sheet of 12.5 2400 x 1200 plasterboard by the pallet. That will be more like £10 a sheet now. 
Decent sawn 4 x 2 was 39p per metre when brought by the 1000m but that's probably £2 a metre now. 
The hundreds of tubes of mastic and acoustic / fire caulk.
Thousands of fixings
Reels of twin and earth, boxes, faceplates
Lots of copper pipe and joints.
Concrete blocks for door hanging ... you can't hand decent doors from a stud wall it won't take the weight. 

We had no scaffolding, we carried each 25K 2400 x 1200 sheet of plasterboard 5 metres up a tower by hand and pinned it to the ceiling while one of us got some screws in. All 4 layers. That's after constructing the pillars and 6 x 2 rafters to hold the weight. Very dangerous work, surprised no one got hurt really. 

I would say you would need 20K to make a start but probably need at least twice that. We didn't use anyone else to do the labour. I used to work in the building trade and the other 2 were slow but perfectly capable. The important thing was we built it in a way that would work acoustically. All measurements were to the mm and every gap filled with acoustic caulk. 

Also you need to know the rateable value, you can check that online just by knowing the address. How the rates are worked out is complicated and to do with area and intended use ..but my 4K sqt place was 1K a month in rates and 2K in rent. 

The lease was 5K deposit I think and 3 month rent upfront. We saved around £1500 of legal fees by my clever partner in crime googling all the legal jargon, converting it to english and then preparing the documents himself. He built in a very useful break clause after 5 years which enabled us to get out when we had only lost about 100K

The reason some rehearsal studios are viable is either because the rateable value is next to nothing ... near farms, viaducts etc or the people running them aren't quite obeying the rules. 

I have many pics of construction but here's a pic of one room, as I said you could get away with half the area and half the height, most places are only about 220 sqt or so per room. The more rooms you pack in the more money but the less pleasant they will be to rehearse in. 
I used to have signed bands come down from London to use out place for pre tour rehearsal. 

roundthebend

So, modern steel warehouse would mean building solid walls around the entire room(s). That'll be costly. Unless the neighbours were very distant or very accommodating. Maybe evenings and weekends only is fine in an industrial area.

Better option is to find a brick building, and as far from grumpy neighbours as possible. That would mean less attenuation needed.

Perhaps one good room in such a building is the starting point. Once viable, divide that room in two with a good isolation gap - a costly exercise maybe but better understood ROI.

PolarityMan

Most rehearsal rooms I've used aren't really sound proofed terribly well.