improvisation for a numpty

Rocker

If learning music theory was easy, everyone would be fluent in it. Remember how long it took to understand English in school. And when you started learning French/German/Italian or whatever....  It takes time, lots of time, to learn a language. Take it in small easily understood and rememberable bits. Just don’t expect to know everything after reading a book on music theory.........

guitarjack66

Evo said:

guitarjack66 said:

I have no idea what you mean,musically speaking,under your heading of 'Punctuation.' 

I'm basically referring to having definite, audible, and intentional starts AND ends to the phrases within your improvisation.

Sorry if that wasn't clear

It's more me,as I don't really have much of a musical vocabulary at all. It is very much a foreign language at the moment,in some cases at least.

Evo

Nothing to worry about there @guitarjack66 ;

Musical vocabulary as written in books and instructional materials rarely translates directly to real world situations, certainly a lot of the "official" terminology gets thrown out the window in favour of easier to convey similes and metaphors. 

i.e. "more piano than forte in the bridge section" is much more likely to be conveyed as "turn your sodding amp down, I can't hear the vocals!"

That's kind of what I was doing with my post, I was trying to compare improvising on the guitar to the way we speak and carry out a conversation. So the "punctuation" I was referring to was to take the usual concepts we know from reading and writing but apply them to guitar playing. You know a sentence is finished because you see a full stop, so apply that same logic to your playing by having a definite end to each phrase. 

guitarjack66

Evo said:

Nothing to worry about there @guitarjack66 ;

Musical vocabulary as written in books and instructional materials rarely translates directly to real world situations, certainly a lot of the "official" terminology gets thrown out the window in favour of easier to convey similes and metaphors. 

i.e. "more piano than forte in the bridge section" is much more likely to be conveyed as "turn your sodding amp down, I can't hear the vocals!"

That's kind of what I was doing with my post, I was trying to compare improvising on the guitar to the way we speak and carry out a conversation. So the "punctuation" I was referring to was to take the usual concepts we know from reading and writing but apply them to guitar playing. You know a sentence is finished because you see a full stop, so apply that same logic to your playing by having a definite end to each phrase. 

Always have a resolution,or resolve to a root or home chord/note? I find this tends to improve with practice,personally. Developing that 'good ear' is taking me quite some time.

viz

^ not surprising, it's a life's journey!

Greatape

In addition to the useful advice already given, one thing my teacher drummed into me was  "motivic development." In English: come up with a little phrase - could be even one or two notes, but simple is best - and then explore the possibilities. Way too many guitar players seem to play an idea once, ditch it for the next one and repeat ad infinitum. That doesn't give a listener (including you) anything to hitch their ear to, and ultimately is quite dull. 

But yeah - lessons would be a decent investment. 

Catthan

Listen to what you practice, and practice what you listen.
and try purposeful noodling - i.e. think before you play - get your brain and ears working. 

also, keep in mind that a lot of what you might think has been an improvised take/ solo  in many cases other than good live jazz is pre-orchestrated and practiced to some extent. do that enough times whilst listening and "planning" how to organise your licks, phrases, patterns, punctuation, syncopation etc and it will be more effortless and more improvised. that's how the session cats do it. they've learned on the job how to quickly organise what they know in a new form for a new song. and it does take them a few tries before they nail "the" take. 

singing what you try to play and vice versa strengthens that link and therefore is a good way to practice. if you see players making funny grimaces or funny sounds is usually bc of that link. and the more your brain and ears can follow, the more technically and melodically complex playing you'll be able to include in your improv. no matter the technical ability and dexterity, you can't play something unless you can hear it. 

then, It's more about the ability to synthesise existing blocks of music (phrases, licks etc) in a musical manner than coming up with something completely new every time you play. same as being able to articulate your own thoughts in a particular language and context/ topic (e.g. discuss your political opinions in italian) it takes purposeful practice and you need to learn some italian first- which you do with learning material but then spending the time to think about your political views and how to articulate them.

GuyBoden

Most improvisation is just playing stuff you have practiced a lot already, but putting it together cohesively.

LastMantra

I don't think you need to know much about theory to improvise. 
I know feck all and all I really do is improvise! 

EDIT - For rock music anyway, don't know much about other types. 

viz

LastMantra said:

I don't think you need to know much about theory to improvise. 

^ I don’t think you need to know any theory whatsoever!

Roland

Improvisation isn’t something you learn from a book. In the days before loopers and cassette recorders I used to play chords for one or two bars, improvise for one or two bars, rinse and repeat. The benefit of this method is that you automatically solo around the notes in the chords, rather than notes in and around the pentatonic. Any other notes, whether scalar or not, become transition notes between chord notes. Then after a while you realise that the transition notes are actually the notes which give your solo interest, and the chord notes are the safe ones which you resolve to at the end of a phrase. You are forced to keep phrases short, rather wandering up and down scales. 

Roland

viz said:

^ I don’t think you need to know any theory whatsoever!

The purpose of theory is to explain what you’ve just played. It can’t tell you what to play next.

viz

Roland said:

viz said:

^ I don’t think you need to know any theory whatsoever!

The purpose of theory is to explain what you’ve just played. It can’t tell you what to play next.

Well I wouldn’t go that far, it can be very helpful, but you don’t need it to improvise. 

Keiko

My top tip is to try and copy the vocalist whenever you play along to records. Why? because you will be learning the skill of translating a melody in your head to the guitar. Instead of just vomiting out scales and patterns from muscle memory, that sound right, but have no thought or emotion behind them.  

stickyfiddle

Roland said:

viz said:

^ I don’t think you need to know any theory whatsoever!

The purpose of theory is to explain what you’ve just played. It can’t tell you what to play next.

My take is that it can give you plenty of hints for what you could play next, but it can't tell you which will be interesting, build tension, or make someone feel something. 

viz

Yep it’s objective. That stuff you mentioned is subjective. 

robgilmo

Play along to songs, and stop telling yourself negatives, you arnt bloody aweful, you are a person trying their best and doing a lot better than you did before you started to play. It takes time and practice but above all just love what you do , putting mental barriers up will only slow you down.

guitarjack66

robgilmo said:

Play along to songs, and stop telling yourself negatives, you arnt bloody aweful, you are a person trying their best and doing a lot better than you did before you started to play. It takes time and practice but above all just love what you do , putting mental barriers up will only slow you down.

Well said Sir. 
I absolutely realise I will never amount to anything musically but I love just picking up a guitar and trying to make pleasant-ish or familiar sounds with it. The ultimate de-stresser.

GuyBoden

We can all listen and hear music, then with practice, we can train our ears to decipher what we are hearing and be able to play it. That is the main skill of an improvising musician.

Evo

I guess there’s different ways you can define “improvising”

For some, it’s winging it in every way. Jumping in with no real plan and hoping for the best. 

For others, it’s navigating your way through a chord progression in a structured and musical way. 

Sometimes it’s a little from column “A” and a little from column “B”…