The aging process

Tannin

guitarjack66 said:

All the guff surrounding modern guitar design sounds exactly like the same stuff around modern golf clubs. 

The bit that gets me, as a photographer, is the idiocy of the average punter.

* No-one ever says "Wow! Great song! You must have a fantastic guitar!"

* No-one ever says "Wow! Brilliant novel! You must have a really good typewriter!"

* No-one ever says "Wow, great guitar you made! You must have a brilliant set of saws and chisels!"

* Nearly every bastard says "Wow, great photograph. You must have a really good camera!"

I have heard that exact phrase, or something else very like it dozens of times. (So has every good photographer.)

WTF!

Yes, I do have a great camera. (About five of them actually.) And I bet Rory McIlroy has some top-class golf clubs, and Rafael Nadal has some best-in-class tennis rackets. So bloody what! Hand Rory that set of old clubs in your shed that you were going to give to the charity shop and he'll still go round in 2 under. Hand Rafael the old wooden racket on the top of my wardrobe and try to take a set off him. Or hand me a cheap, low-tech camera and I'll find a way to make it work. 

Or the one I've heard more than once about my shot with not one but two Numbats in it (very rare and difficult little creatures to photograph). "Wow! Great shot! You were lucky to get that!" 

Lucky you wanker? Too right I was lucky - and I made bloody sure of being lucky by (a) practicing my craft until I could reliably get the shot under pressure, and (b) standing out in 40 degree Western Australian heat all day, day after day, until I was lucky.

crunchman

Mellish said:

I've never kept.an.acoustic long enough for any aging to occur. And I think that's key cos you'd need to be with it through the years to appreciate any tonal change, surely?

I think it's around 8 years for a Martin some say.

 

There are changes quite quickly in my experience.  There is a tightness to the sound of a new guitar that seems to be much reduced in around 6 months if you play it a good amount.  That's more likely to be vibration causing things to settle in, as you aren't going to get much aging in 6 months.

The change over time after that is gradual.  It's not like you flick a switch at 8 years, or 5 years, or any other number.  I think there will normally be noticeable change by 5 years in, but the process doesn't end there.

You also want to start with a good guitar.  Give me a modern Martin with forward shifted bracing, and the correct bridge plate material, over an early 70s D28 any day.  When I was acoustic shopping 15 or 20 years ago, the new D28Vs sounded far better than the early 70s examples that were about the same price second hand.  The one I bought sounds better now than it did when it was new.

Mellish

@crunchman ; actually, you've made me think back.
I DID have a guitar that went through a quick, dramatic change
It was a Gibson Hummingbird Modern Classic. I bought it online (Gak) which is unusual for me. 
I was disappointed by its poor tone and almost returned it. 
Within a month (at most) it sprang into life, not through playing but by just being on a stand listening to a radio.

 

Soupman

I think the type of wood used for the top makes a difference too. 
I read years ago somewhere that cedar opens up more quickly than spruce. I have 2 cedar topped guitars and this did seem to be the case for me.

ICBM

In my opinion there’s a mistaken assumption in the original post too - that only solid wood ages and improves over time, with the implication that ‘plywood’ (whether or not called that, or ‘laminate’) doesn’t. This is not so - ply guitars also age and improve… perhaps not as fast, perhaps not as far, and from a lower starting position - but they still do. A fifty-year-old ply guitar doesn’t sound like a new one at all. Why would it? Ply is also made from wood, even if there’s also some glue.

Also in my opinion guitars *can* age too far - it’s not always a one-way process of improvement. The best seem to keep on getting better, but I’ve come across plenty of (best described as) ‘mid quality’ solid-top guitars which actually sound a bit dull and tired when they get old.

WezV

They only get to sound better if played/vibrated/put under tension.   The slow change to the woods cellar structure is influenced by the stresses it is put under.   So its not just age, but age and use that makes older ones sound  really good.  Okay, older wood is generally stiffer, so you may get some improvement just from age, but not the same level as an old well played guitar.

Some woods age differently.  Cedar will break in very quickly compared to spruce, then not really age much at all, and possibly even start to deteriorate after a few decades use.

construction also plays a role.  In violins it is common to add a bit of spring to the brace and force it to the top.  This adds tension without weight, and sounds much better from the start, but will also eventually lead to joint failure and a loss of tone.  Fine on a violin as they are built to be taken apart  and serviced,... not so good on an acoustic or archtop guitar.  It is better to let it develop it's tone naturally over time rather than force it

BigPaulie

Tannin said:

Lucky you wanker? Too right I was lucky - and I made bloody sure of being lucky by (a) practicing my craft until I could reliably get the shot under pressure, and (b) standing out in 40 degree Western Australian heat all day, day after day, until I was lucky.

As the great Arnold Palmer said:

"The more I practice, the luckier I get"

DavidR

WezV said:

Some woods age differently.  Cedar will break in very quickly compared to spruce, then not really age much at all, and possibly even start to deteriorate after a few decades use.

I agree. Especially classical players and luthiers say that about Cedar tops on classical guitars.

Soupman

WezV said:

Some woods age differently.  Cedar will break in very quickly compared to spruce, then not really age much at all, and possibly even start to deteriorate after a few decades use

Personally, I'm fine with this.
My cedar top opened up quickly but if it deteriorates in a few decades, well I won't be here anyway. Or if I am, my hearing will be gone!
Eh? What's that you say?
  

LastMantra

I think it must be almost inevitable that your perception of how your guitar sounds will change over the years.