Learning Riffs, how long?

spev11

As a Beginner/ early intermediate guitarist I'm finding some riffs are taking a suprisingly long time to learn.
I;m talking easy riffs here as well, ie Rebel Rebel, for some reason it will not stay in my hand regardless of how hard I try, its been 4 days now. Is this normal ? Some stuff I find easier when It would seem more difficult on paper.
Just sounding out really

stickyfiddle

I'd guess the exact time depends on the player and the song, but what is common is it'll get quicker the more you do it. 

After 20+ years II'm good at learning new things but often find that while my fingers can remember things pretty well via muscle memory that's only any good after my brain has remembered how the thing starts...

theatreanchor

It really depends. But the more you do it, the better you’ll be. When I was learning as a teenager, I’d play three hours a day or until my hands gave up. Whichever came first. 

LionAquaLooper

If you can figure out a riff within 5 mins, then it's not worth learning

Just kidding.  Like others have said already it totally depends.  My only tip from personal experience is - choose the riffs you want to learn wisely.  I've lost enthusiasm and excitement for riffs that I used to love to listen to because I know how to play them now.  Nowadays there are riffs/progressions that I absolutely refuse to learn because I love them too much.  "Dreams" by Fleetwood Mac for example.  Such a great song and simple progression but I don't want to learn it.

stickyfiddle

Just to add... the first time we ever played what turned out to be my old band's best "highlight of set" type song I played the riff completely upside down. Left hand correct but right hand playing an entirely wrong picking pattern. 

A riff I wrote myself - zero excuses. Don't give yourself too much grief..! 

spev11

A fair enough, I practice 2 hours an evening but don't spend all the session on the one riff. I shall continue to enjoy the journey, it frustrates me but it more than rewards me also.

digitalkettle

Don't want to sound patronising but make sure you understand what you are playing...something deeper than a sequence of numbers in tab...then it has more chance of getting ingrained, e.g. key, underlying chords, time sig, tempo, etc.

WeZ84

Use a metronome or if playing along with the track, slow it right down until you can play it 10 times in a row with no mistakes then step up the speed a notch and play it 10 times in a row again until you can play it at full speed.

You could even go a little faster than the required speed. That way if you can consistently play it faster than you need to, you know you'll be fine at the normal speed. This helps when playing under pressure with an audience or if playing in a band with an over-enthusiastic drummer 

spev11

digitalkettle said:

Don't want to sound patronising but make sure you understand what you are playing...something deeper than a sequence of numbers in tab...then it has more chance of getting ingrained, e.g. key, underlying chords, time sig, tempo, etc.

No , I fully understand what you mean, I'm learning theory as well so I'm covering all bases. I learn riffs to keep it fun but once I've learnt one I can keep it on the back burner as I get deeper into the why/what/how etc

digitalkettle

spev11 said:

digitalkettle said:

Don't want to sound patronising but make sure you understand what you are playing...something deeper than a sequence of numbers in tab...then it has more chance of getting ingrained, e.g. key, underlying chords, time sig, tempo, etc.

No , I fully understand what you mean, I'm learning theory as well so I'm covering all bases. I learn riffs to keep it fun but once I've learnt one I can keep it on the back burner as I get deeper into the why/what/how etc

What I mean is: say you're learning 'Message in a Bottle'...key of C#m...C#m, A, B, F#m chords...1-5-9 shapes...there's a lot more to support the learning/memorisation process there than just a tab sequence.

Also, unless you can write it out cold with pencil & paper, you don't really know it

spev11

I know there’s more to it but I’m not there yet. I play and learn riffs amongst the rest of the learning to break it up and keep it interesting. Otherwise it’s just maths with notes  . I get excited when a bit of theory I’ve just learnt relates back to something, it’s all useful but I’ll take your advice on board.

topdog91

It takes as long as it takes. Learning is not a matter of play something once and it's perfect. Learning is often frustrating and you need to focus on the end goal. If you could play things perfectly, you wouldn't need to learn.  Don't rush it, better to learn slowly and correctly than rush and fudge it. You are almost certainly improving over time, which is the main thing.

BahHumbug

I’d say be prepared for progress to be on geological timescales.  Getting started on guitar is not easy or quick.  However, if you love doing it, that’s part of what makes it rewarding.

I’m interested that you mention ’Rebel Rebel’ as an example ‘easy’ riff.  Just have a think about some of the technical elements in it.  IIRC it includes single note melody played across strings, in conjunction with double stops and maybe some mini chords, pull-offs, on beat and off beat rhythm.  And note damping.  I’m not going to argue the toss of whether it is easy or not, but that’s quite a lot of technique to put together for a beginner/intermediate player.

Lestratcaster

Getting the rhythm right is the key part of playing a riff properly. Being able to play it in time with a metronome or the original track is important. With no groove or the right timing it'll never sound right.

spev11

the weird thing is once I've got the fingers going the right direction then I have no trouble (well not much) keeping in time, how that would fair in a band setting I've no idea but I play for my own pleasure so It may never be relevant.
As always the advice is exemplary and give me ideas to work on. 
ta

allen

I learned that riff as a beginner about 30 years ago. I'm not sure if I can do it reliably even today. The way it comes back to that E chord doesn't feel natural under my fingers. 

However, I would generally agree with others that you will have to do a lot more well organised practice than you would think to do even simple(ish) riffs like that one.

If you are anything like me, you are also probably putting in a lot less time than you think into really learning/practicing. A lot of time just goes on noodling/playing old things that I already know/fiddling with equipment. Even 10 minutes of focussed practice will feel very hard.

tone1

I only know how to play Riffs….

spev11

Given how haphazard my day to day life is my guitar practice is weirdly organised, I have structures for chords, progressions, scale learning, songs (And singing badly) technique learning etc, that's roughly an hour and a half or so, then I have a noodle and a mess around with the looper/drum machine or garage band. I'm quite determined to learn to play to the best of my ability, I'm 53 now and started in earnest 3 years ago, its slow going at times but I'm getting there.
 I've just started to organise a couple of mates into a rough jam session as well.

CaseOfAce

I personally wouldn't get too hung up on nailing that Rebel Rebel riff too precisely - as long as you hit the marks on that D -> A -> E chord change / top notes with the feel - you'll get the point across on the riff. Bear in mind when Bowie wrote the riff it's intended to be sloppy to get that feel across. It's one of the tunes I do in my set and once I put in the vocal part over the top the intricacies of the riff fade into the background.

As for learning riffs... (or any solo / part) , I NETFLIX it.
By that I mean I sit down with an unplugged guitar and watch a film or tv show and just get it under my fingers by playing it repeatedly (obv. with no one else in the room). If I can't play it after doing that for 90 minutes it ain't gonna happen.

CoffeeAndTV

It’s like learning a new language, it just takes time.  The more time you spend working on those skills the easier it gets. 

Kultschar

One thing I noticed this week (playing Metal stuff) is how weak, useless and uncoordinated my Pinkie is!    Been exercising it a lot since!