AC30 gas!

Monstronaut

I need an ac30! I'm having trouble deciding whether I should go vintage or pickup a 90's or even a recent hand wired job. I gig regularly so reliability is key. Can anyone offer any insight?

skay

The newest handwired AC30s that are made in Vietnam have got a very good reputation for sound quality from reading about them on various forums, it's a bit too early to tell regarding the long-term reliability, but being handwired things should be easy to spot and fix I guess. They only come in the grey 'fawn' colour, so look quite cool as well, plus have things like a half power switch and master volume to give it some modern-day versatility. There's a 'Hot mode' that takes the eq out and takes the amp into newer higher gain territories, so could give you the best of both worlds, plus the normal channel has a bright switch to stop it sounding too dull with humbuckers. 

   The Celestion Blue speakers in the handwired 'X' versions (AC30HW1 without the X at the end do not have the Blue speakers and are considerably cheaper due to this) have the correct English-built cones as many people seem to think the Chinese built ones that are/were in the custom classic PCB ones do not truly capture the sound of the vintage originals. 

   The 90's Vox amps built in the UK under license from Marshall are very good amps, not handwired (if that makes a difference to you, unless you find one of the rare limited handwired editions circa 2003) but also have a good rep for sounding like an original. These do not have a master volume so you have to get real loud before there's any of that roaring AC30 distortion, unless of course you use an attenuator like a Dr Z Brakelite or THD Hotplate. There are a few coming up secondhand now and again, but are gaining some cult status so the prices are slowly creeping up, soon beyond making them a god deal compared to a new one.

   Even though probably a perfectly fine sounding amp, the custom classics are the least desirable of the recent offerings from Vox, even the Heritage Handwired ones with the EF86 preamp valve were slated for their not-exactly-handwired construction, but could be a cheaper way in and scratch the itch you have for an AC30.

   At risk of stating the bleeding obvious, these are really loud amps, especially if you want to overdrive them for their natural breakup. Of course you have the option of a master volume on some models, but then I feel you lose some of  the AC30 goodness which is the big power section wide open, and using a master volume takes away from the hugeness factor and lessens the harmonics and chime that leap from this amp. What i'm hinting at is that have a look at the AC15s as well before you make your purchase. I have a 90's AC15TBX and it was plenty loud enough when I played it out with a lead guitarist playing through a Fender Twin.The big clean headroom isn't there granted, but the natural overdrive is the rawest rock 'n roll sound and you'll always want that little bit of grit in there anyway once you hear it. 

   The newest handwired AC15s have a bigger cab than before, so sound much bigger than you'd think a 15 watt should, plus it have all the half power/Hot switch/bright switch to make it a very versatile gigging amp. I have an AC30 with a Brakelite attenuator which allows me to run the master volume fully open, but given the choice to start all over again i'd seriously consider one of these new AC15s, plus getting older the less weight would be the clincher for me :-D

Once again, a long post, my speciality! Hope some of it helps, feel free to ask me anything AC30 related (valves, pedals, attenuators etc) as i've been messing around with my Voxes for over ten years now so have a fair bit of experience knowing what works or doesn't with these amps,

Steve

skay

Sorry forgot to mention (in all of that!) i've not got any experience with vintage originals, but as you gig regularly (so would have to transport it around a lot) and wanted reliability (poor ventilation made for many overheating/breaking down tales), a vintage AC30 would be an ironic amp to suggest!

NervousJohn

I've got a 1964 non top boost AC-30 which I gig with. But to be happy taking it out I did replace all the decoupling caps and changed the cathode bias to try and thermally manage the amp better. I stuck a post on the vintage amps bb a while back.

http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=99753

Vintage doesn't need to mean unreliable but you do have to put a little effort in. The plus side is you will get a constant stream of people complimenting you on how good you sound - because you will.

jaygtr

I've tried the ac30hw1x , and it was too lloud and too big , but sounded magnificent. Everything I expected it to be really. And a step up from the ac30 cc2 which was still pretty good.

I preferred the ac15hw1x though, it just seemed a more usable amp.

skay

No doubt a vintage AC30 would sound great, that's why we've spent almost 50 years chasing that tone and trying to get it back, but the thing that put me off going vintage was the old wearing-out parts issue. I do not know any amp repairers locally and cannot fix these things myself, so my choice was a modern handwired AC30 that I could get all the proper Vox tones but with (hopefully) modern reliability.

  I've had my AC30 for ten years now (hardly comparable to NervousJohn's 1964 amp I know), but apart from some NOS valves taking out a fuse and resistor or something, it has been extremely reliable and I feel confident it will keep going in all conditions due to the newer parts and better valve ventilation, which i've heard was a common problem with older Vox amps. It's even getting a bit beaten up and is looking like one of the cool 60's amps, and the blue speakers have broken-in nicely after many hours of high volume playing, so it's sounding and looking more 'vintage' everyday!

   I've had amps that were constantly breaking down on me, albeit because they were cheaper amps and poorly built, but not having that fear of it not powering up at a gig or going down half way through is why I made the decision to buy new and hopefully have an amp that will be a reliable and need minimum maintenance.  @NervousJohn sounds like he knows what he's talking about with 'decoupling caps' and changing the 'cathode bias' which I admit is totally out of my sphere of knowledge, so I will humbly refrain from offering technical advice on amps vintage or otherwise, but can at least offer my opinion of choosing new due to not wanting a project amp that potentially needs regular servicing/looking after, i'm all about the easy life!. 

    

Monstronaut

Thanks guys. Lots to consider. I haven't ruled out vintage but I'd need to factor tech costs in. I've pretty much ruled out Custom/custom classics. I'm not looking for modern tones, just classic ac30 tone. If anyone has a line on an amp let me know.

Cirrus

Honestly, I'm kind of of the opinion that most vintage "mojo" and "magic" is pretty much down to nostalgia, subconscious justification of high prices, and the fact that we've had 50 years to accept the tone of those old Beatles/ shadows/ kinks/ whatever recordings as one of the definitions of "good" guitar tone. That's not to say NervousJohn's amp isn't awesome - I bet it is and would love to hear it!

I try to keep an open mind about these things, so if a modern AC30 model has a little more/less headroom, is a little brighter or gainier or tighter or has extra features, that doesn't make it a better or worse amp. All that ever matters is this:

Does it sound good to you, playing what you play with your gear in your situation?

That's the only test that makes sense. And unfortunately there's only one way to answer it properly. You've got to get an amp and live with it for a bit. So, decide on a budget, decide what features (effects loop? reverb? half power? master volume?) are important to you, then look for an AC30 model that fits the bill.

Any amp can break down. If heat/ reliability do concern you, look for a head. They're better ventilated and easier to baby.

Just some random thoughts on the different models;

I've been gigging a HW2 head for the last 18 months. I love it, but it did have trouble blowing fuses and eating valves before I modified it. By contrast my previous amp, a CC2, was solid as a rock for 4 years of gigging even if it was a little brighter/thinner and the gain was stiffer. I had no trouble modding/ working on either. The new C series looks a little less solidly built just going on pictures but I've never played one. The older '90s TB/TBX amps fall close to the new HW series on the ac30 sound spectrum, with plenty of headroom and relatively deep/ tight low end. They sometimes have ground loop issues. The Heritage series amps (2006-2010) while not hand wired are good amps with ef86 and pentode/triode switches, which are a better half power option than the way the HW series does it (by biasing the tubes really cold, which sounds shit!)

skay

This is a point I really agree with that @Cirrus made when he stated:

"I try to keep an open mind about these things, so if a modern AC30 model has a little more/less headroom, is a little brighter or gainier or tighter or has extra features, that doesn't make it a better or worse amp. All that ever matters is this:

Does it sound good to you, playing what you play with your gear in your situation?

That's the only test that makes sense."

It seems the newer Vox amps get regularly bashed on various other forums for not sounding like a vintage AC30 someone heard once, and I think we had this exact discussion on the last site not too long ago talking about how Marshall-esq the newer ones can sound with their master volumes (which I think is a GOOD thing for MY application), but as echoed by Cirrus above, the old saying goes if it sounds good to you then it IS good.

No two old ones are meant to sound alike as they were probably built with whatever parts were to hand, the components have drifted over time, plus that's begging the question that they were 'better' back then anyway as you may prefer the stiffer filtering and snappier attack in place of a spongy attack and ghost notes! I kid, i kid, but it's a fair point....

NervousJohn

Actually I should have probably caveated my statement saying I don't gig regularly. I dont want to pretend I'm out bashing away every night. That said when I need it to work it does and I'm happy using it. Plus there is a strong element of default in there. I bought it 20 odd years ago for (relative) peanuts, I didn't go shopping with the express intention of buying a vintage amp. It just sounded better that the Peavey Bandit it was sitting next to

@Cirrus thanks - I like the tone I get, which pretty much agrees with your statement. As to how it sounds my band's facebook page has some vids from a gig a few weeks back. Or (shameless plug) were playing in Worthing on the 3rd Oct.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nervous-Pills/183466758411732

Cirrus

Liked!

slate

Monstronaut;36118" said:

Thanks guys. Lots to consider. I haven't ruled out vintage but I'd need to factor tech costs in. I've pretty much ruled out Custom/custom classics. I'm not looking for modern tones, just classic ac30 tone. If anyone has a line on an amp let me know.

Shameless plug, but i've got a MINT 2013 AC30HWH for sale in the classifieds at this very moment...
Cost me a grand four weeks ago-selling for £800.
Spot-on posts from Skay, btw :-)
In my own experience with Vox, he's hit the nail right on the head :-)

IvisonGuitars

Avoid JMI.

JayGee

miserneil said:

Avoid JMI.

? 

Neglecting the Music Ground connection (which I'll grant you isn't easy) I've never seen anything bad said about these amps, and the examples I've seen have both looked and sounded fabulous. 

As long as I could buy second hand from someone with no connection to the Harrisons I'd have one like a shot...

IvisonGuitars

I've recently been touring with two JMI AC30's and I can tell you from personal experience that they are unreliable, poorly made & rather average sounding at best. I believe the earlier Steve Giles era were excellent but the current JMI's are not.

JayGee

Ah.

I didn't realise they'd found another supplier and started shipping again. My assessment was entirely on the basis of the original run, which really were rather lovely...

IvisonGuitars

@JayGee yes, I hear the original ones were great :-)

tele69

Pm'd I have an I have an oldie available....I think!

tbm

Got one of the handwired AC30s with greenbacks earlier this year and I've been extremely pleased with it. It's a fair whack cheaper then the one with the blues, but having tried both I preferred the greenbacks. In terms of reliability, while I haven't had it that long its seen a fair bit of action (plenty of gigs, a few festivals) and there hasn't been any issues. It's a big, loud, responcive amp that takes pedals really well, espeically the normal channel.

In terms of reliability, i almost had enough money at the time to go looking for a vintage one, but too many people were warning me off that, saying they could be money pits if you get a dodgy one. The other guitar player in the band has a '64 AC15 twin, and its extremely reliable so it you can be lucky. 

Monstronaut

Well yesterday I spent the day trying all the current models. Ac30c2, AC30c2x, AC15c1 as well as a hand wired ac30. I found that I preferred the greenbacks to the blues and that the ac15 was a bit tighter to my ear. I had pretty much decided to get the ac15 & went for a coffee to mull it over. On my way back I stopped in a cool little used gear shop and spied a jmi 64/65 ac50. Wow! It blew the socks off every other amp I tried even through a cheap cab. I couldnt leave without it. The depth of the tone is unreal. Very happy. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for reliability, I may have to get a spare!

NervousJohn

An AC-50! Sweet. Never played through one but they have a great reputation. Now in a rough order of importance: 1) check your electrolytic capacitors for swelling (or replace them anyway) 2) inspect all the wires for signs of overheating 3) take photos so we can drool. Obviously 1) and 2) have a degree of exposure to lethal voltages, and I'm sure someone can recommend a tech if you don't know what to do.