Buying (Expensive) Used Guitars from USA/EU post-Brexit?

charisarvanitis

Hello fellow Fretboard forum members I am new here, in terms of subscribing, but I have been reading the forum for many years. I would like to ask those of you who have bought expensive 2nd hand guitars from Reverb or any other online platform, in particular from a private seller/individual (and by “expensive” I mean guitars whose value is above $2,500, which I read somewhere is a key threshold for certain governments when it comes to customs checks/CITES checks etc).

I am not worried about surprises with regards to VAT and import duty taxes when the guitar arrives in the UK - that part is straightforward to calculate. What I am worried about is any other danger of having it seized/destroyed/penalised/held for long time/returned/etc etc. Is there some standard procedure you follow when buying online, 2nd hand, from a private seller? Do you ask them to fill certain declaration forms, or maybe you as a buyer have to fill certain forms for the arrival procedure at UK customs? Do you apply for any special approvals or ID numbers that you have to provide to UK customs (e.g. EORI number) when/if asked? Lets ignore “Brazilian Rosewood” that is endangered and needs CITES forms, this is out of the question - just talking about “normal” guitars. Apologies for the generic nature of the question, I have never bought a guitar online from overseas and would appreciate any examples of past experiences you might have and things to be aware of. Thank you very much!

MikeC

Not imported for a while but never had an issue. But I only bought from dealers with good reputations or eBayers with excellent feedback and only then after lots of emails to check them out. 

wizbit81

When I've done it the exporter has to fill in a CITES form if any of the wood is on the list, and you have to provide proof that the wood used is older than a certain date. Often the age of the guitar will prove that. If it's not filled it or the wood is younger than that date then you are chancing it and it may get stopped, tested, destroyed etc.

Nightswan

I've never had anything like that when importing into the UK but when I shipped one recently to USA I got into a whole handling with something called the Lacey Act so I had to send USA customs the relevant import numbers for each wood, species, sub species and country of harvest. 

Zoonyboy

If it is from the USA to the UK, there should be no problem at all re. any certification, as long as there are no restricted woods, etc. I recently had a couple of Melancon guitars from different US locations at different times, and they were maple/mahogany/ash and made within the last 10 years or so, and it was smooth, just VAT and import duty & handling. Always just a little more money than you think, though.
A few years back I had a Japanese made Bigsby guitar from the US, and the seller shipped through a certified port, as there were pearl inlays. He paid the extra $50 to make sure it was all legit.
If you can use Fedex or similar, you should have no problems at all with anything from an American Reverb dealer. If you are buying ash body & maple neck for example, what could go wrong?
Also, I agree, as Nightswan says, shipping to the US is a total pain these days. It used to be so simple.

webrthomson

I bought a 76 LP goldtop from the US last year, didnt declare anything other than "Guitar" and value. Nothing further was asked for except the import costs (duty and VAT).

Private sales from the EU dont require an EORI number, if you are buying from a shop they will provide that to customs, I bought some kit from Italy and that was what they did

rze99

I bought one from Canada from a shop with a great reputation - The Twelfth Fret Pro shop -  during lockdown. There was a period when the exchange was very favourable and they had a sale so even with import and taxes included it was Uk equivalant price. They were excellent and there were no problems.  

charisarvanitis

I have read terror stories where if a Customs officer “decides” that a certain part of the guitar is not e.g. ebony but rosewood, or the inlays ivory instead of mother of pearl - just because they made a mistake or out of pure ignorance - then it becomes a very tricky situation in order to convince them of the opposite. As long as is not endangered you do not need CITES, but there was a period recently that even simple rosewood was problematic which makes me wonder how did people did it if even the most common material on most guitars was causing headaches. So I guess it is worth it always asking the seller to attach a page with all the specs of the guitar in detail, and hope that’s gonna be enough. I also read somewhere that $2,500 is a threshold and that if the guitar’s price is above that then it is highly likely to get opened for extra checks.

wizbit81

Rosewood is/was on the CITES list. Not Brazilian, just rosewood in general. As I said earlier, you had to get the seller to fill in a CITES form declaring what species of rosewood it was, where it was harvested from and how old it was. I had to do that when I shipped to the US, and I had to get the seller to do it on import. Anything on the list, you have to do it or yeah, customs can take it, seize it, destroy it, take a bit chunk to sample....whatever they like really. Loads of people just take the chance and don't bother with forms but then cry like babies when 2-3k gets vanished by customs. Play by the rules or play roulette with your money.

charisarvanitis

So if the guitar does not have any rosewood of any kind, and instead ash, maple, ebony or both, then CITES is not applicable anymore. Is there anything else besides the VAT and duty that can possibly come up during the import process? Anything else at all that you guys can think of? Would the seller still have to fill up a form with all the specs etc and would the buyer have to obtain other permit of any type?

webrthomson

Finished rosewood in instruments is no longer subject to CITES (depending on when the rosewood was cut you may still need a certificate):

 https://reverb.com/news/new-cites-regulations-for-all-rosewood-species

 Unless its Brazilian rosewood. Dalbergia inclusion was to stop rosewood furniture not musical instruments and has since been fully excluded.

 As noted above shipping to the USA is a pain, shipping from the USA is not.

prlgmnr

I imported an expensive guitar from the US with a rosewood neck in 2018, I said "what about CITES" and the seller said not to worry, he'd sort all that out and then he just....didn't do any paperwork at all and luckily I got away with it.

Wouldn't do it again unless it was something there was really no other way of obtaining (which was the case with this one).