Markbass Amp mod

ChrisCox1994

So, I use a Markbass 121p 1x12 combo for gigs, its 500W RMS @ 4 ohms / 300W RMS @ 8 ohms

The internal speaker is 400w @ 8ohms, so the amp is only producing 300w

Could I in theory put a +500W single 12" 4ohm speaker in and make use of the the full 500w the amp is capable of?

I don't want to bring an extra cab to the kind of gigs that I'm doing with it (small clubs, functions) one trip from the van is essential.

If this is possible how would i wire it up, and where can i buy such a speaker? (Neo magnet, +500w, 12")

TIA

fretmeister

Yes you could, however MB take a lot of time to design their cone specs to fit their enclosures so slapping any old 500W cone in it will significantly change the sound you have.

Also, the actual difference between running at 4ohms and 8ohms is about 2 notches on the volume dial, so unless you are maxing the amp already you won't really notice any difference. And even then the cab itself will come into play and probably sound farty as the internal pressures increase.

If you want "more" then the absolutely best way is getting the specific 1x12 extension cab to go with it.

If you are having trouble hearing it but the audience is not, then angle it up so it points at your ears more. If you are using the di into the PA then you can place the combo anywhere you like as your onstage monitor.

"Making use" of the full power doesn't really mean anything as the margins / benefits are so small when using only a single cone.
There's only so much a single cone can do - and unless there is a very special cone out there - like a Barefaced designed one - that has an excursion level far beyond the existing one it just will not shift any more air.

More cones is 99.9% a better choice than swapping 1 single cone for another.

And you can't buy a Barefaced cone without a BF cab, and their 12 inch cones are super flat and nothing like the MB cones. They sound very different indeed.

I love MB kit - my main amp is the MB AG1000 and I use it with a pair of Barefaced 10 inch cabs, a One10 and a One10T (one with a tweeter). Their 10 inch cabs are much closer to the Markbass sound, but still different.

ICBM

Yes, in theory - just connect it exactly as the stock one is. But in practice, unless it’s the same sensitivity or greater than the existing one, the increase in volume will be minimal or non-existent.

4-ohm 500W+ neo speakers are quite rare, although this looks like a possible option - https://eminence.com/collections/12-inch-bass-guitar-speakers/products/delta_12lfc#specifications - but it’s only 93dB, which is quite low.

Without knowing the figure for the stock speaker, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s higher, in which case the short answer is it may even be quieter despite the higher power, so unless you’re only just fractionally short of enough volume, it’s not worth the cost and trouble to find out. The only way to get *significantly* more volume is an extension cab, unfortunately.

ChrisCox1994

fretmeister said:

Yes you could, however MB take a lot of time to design their cone specs to fit their enclosures so slapping any old 500W cone in it will significantly change the sound you have.

Also, the actual difference between running at 4ohms and 8ohms is about 2 notches on the volume dial, so unless you are maxing the amp already you won't really notice any difference. And even then the cab itself will come into play and probably sound farty as the internal pressures increase.

If you want "more" then the absolutely best way is getting the specific 1x12 extension cab to go with it.

If you are having trouble hearing it but the audience is not, then angle it up so it points at your ears more. If you are using the di into the PA then you can place the combo anywhere you like as your onstage monitor.

"Making use" of the full power doesn't really mean anything as the margins / benefits are so small when using only a single cone.
There's only so much a single cone can do - and unless there is a very special cone out there - like a Barefaced designed one - that has an excursion level far beyond the existing one it just will not shift any more air.

More cones is 99.9% a better choice than swapping 1 single cone for another.

And you can't buy a Barefaced cone without a BF cab, and their 12 inch cones are super flat and nothing like the MB cones. They sound very different indeed.

I love MB kit - my main amp is the MB AG1000 and I use it with a pair of Barefaced 10 inch cabs, a One10 and a One10T (one with a tweeter). Their 10 inch cabs are much closer to the Markbass sound, but still different.

I might have to look into different amp options in that case then. 

Usually stage volume isn't an issue, I'm always in the PA at my own gigs with big subs and IEMs but there's increasingly been a few gigs where I've been on wedges for vocals and stage volume is encouraged (rare these days I know, but it's cool) with larger 6pc bands on cramped loud stages.

I already angle up and stand next to the amp pointed at myself to the left of me with a loud drummer less than 1m away, I need earplugs just cos of stage volume level and gear is really kept to a minimum for quick load in and load out (late night gig, down a flight of stairs, nightclub vibes) 

Out front the kick and bass are thumping but on stage the low end is lacking, and I down want to muddy up the vocal by asking for bass in the wedges.

Most other bassists around seem to use barefaced 212 with Aguilar heads so I might look into that if I can't gain any more punch and low end from the single 12. 

@ICBM the MB speaker is 96db sens anyway so yeah I don't think there's anything that would be a significant actual volume boost now you bring it up.

ICBM

ChrisCox1994 said:

@ICBM the MB speaker is 96db sens anyway so yeah I don't think there's anything that would be a significant actual volume boost now you bring it up.

You will actually lose about 1dB going from 300W into a 96dB speaker to 500W into a 93dB speaker, all other things being equal.

If it has to be a one-hand carry, I would look for the lightest 300W+ 1x15" combo you can find - 15s are usually slightly more sensitive than 12s and have a little more natural LF response (again, depending to some extent on other factors).

fretmeister

The Barefaced Super Twin is an amazing cab. 18kg, tilt back wheels, easy to move. Nowadays there's a tweeter option too.
It is a very neutral cab though - nothing like the Mark Bass cab sound. The BF Four10 and Six10 are much closer and although they are very light, they are physically big.

GR Bass also now have their Carbon series and they are even lighter than Barefaced. Not tried one myself though.

A different option is moving to IEMs and then using something like the Backbeat

BackBeat - Play Bass, Feel Bass – BackBeat Technologies LLC. (getbackbeat.com)

Or the Eich bassboard

BassBoards | EICH Amplification (eich-amps.com)

This would give you the feel you want while also protecting your ears.

In the meantime I'm going to suggest an old school solution... if you are using modern custom earplugs (as you should really) swap them to foam ones for the moment. They'll attenuate the top end and you'll hear more lows.

t's not perfect, but while you decide it will keep your ears protected and give you a more useful EQ curve for bass.

prowla

As a rule of thumb, all other things being equal, 500W is maybe 10% louder than 300; it'd take 3000W to be twice as loud.

ChrisCox1994

The EBS MAGNI 502 2X10 is looking compelling for a grab and go, anyone tried one?

ChrisCox1994

fretmeister said:

The Barefaced Super Twin is an amazing cab. 18kg, tilt back wheels, easy to move. Nowadays there's a tweeter option too.
It is a very neutral cab though - nothing like the Mark Bass cab sound. The BF Four10 and Six10 are much closer and although they are very light, they are physically big.

GR Bass also now have their Carbon series and they are even lighter than Barefaced. Not tried one myself though.

A different option is moving to IEMs and then using something like the Backbeat

BackBeat - Play Bass, Feel Bass – BackBeat Technologies LLC. (getbackbeat.com)

Or the Eich bassboard

BassBoards | EICH Amplification (eich-amps.com)

This would give you the feel you want while also protecting your ears.

In the meantime I'm going to suggest an old school solution... if you are using modern custom earplugs (as you should really) swap them to foam ones for the moment. They'll attenuate the top end and you'll hear more lows.

t's not perfect, but while you decide it will keep your ears protected and give you a more useful EQ curve for bass.

Yeah I'm on ACS moulds, and I can't really go to iems at these gigs unfortunately.

Barefaced does look great but I really need the combo form factor, pedal board in one hand, bass on the back with leads, iPad, holder and mic in the pouch and amp in the other hand...

fretmeister

ChrisCox1994 said:

The EBS MAGNI 502 2X10 is looking compelling for a grab and go, anyone tried one?

I've been looking at those myself!

I play in a big band with about 25 of us on a stage but only the bass and keys are amplified. The rest is just a lot of noisy brass and reeds so I feel your pain about monitoring: unless we are playing outside we don't have a PA at all.

For rehearsals I use a single Barefaced One10 and a MB head, but I add a 2nd cab for gigs / outdoor etc. 

I have the bass on my back, amp / cables etc in a shoulder bag and then a cab in each hand. A combo would be easier and the EBS does look great.

EBS are very clean sounding and it's a shame they didn't put the drive circuit from the 752 head in the combo just for a bit of harmonic thickness.

Hotrox have got one in at the moment - and quite a bit cheaper than everybody else.

ChrisCox1994

@fretmeister yeah they look great spec wise, i'm sorted for compression / drive / oct and filter, its nice that it also has a compressor on board. 

I'll probably wait for one to come up 2nd hand as I rarely buy new just to save the £££

Although the 0% finance on andertons looks mighty tempting! 

fretmeister

I think the EBS combo is a bit too new to have many second hand ones yet.

EBS have never really been as popular in the UK as other places. I was asking on Basschat about their new Reidmar 752 head and the only person who had tried one was a journo who had done a proper review.

Not helped by a lack of stockists compared to other brands.

I know Barefaced are doing the R&D on an amp of their own, and presumably that will lead to combos as well, but I don't know what the timeline is. Alex sometimes puts photos up on IG but the only photos I've seen have been complete amps built on breadboard so it could still be very early stages.

ICBM

ChrisCox1994 said:

I already angle up and stand next to the amp pointed at myself to the left of me with a loud drummer less than 1m away

To be honest, reading this again I think the real problem is that you’re too close to the drummer.

fretmeister

ICBM said:

ChrisCox1994 said:

I already angle up and stand next to the amp pointed at myself to the left of me with a loud drummer less than 1m away

To be honest, reading this again I think the real problem is that you’re too close to the drummer.

I had missed that bit.

I agree.

Either needs more distance or the drums need the Perspex baffle of shame!  

ChrisCox1994

Haha, I don't think thats gonna happen, I may end up just asking for more bass and kick in the drum wedge. It's a super fun gig but keeps you on your toes

fretmeister

Which ACS filters are you using?

It might actually better to increase the attenuation and remove some boom.

Then if you can put a di box last on your pedalboard go direct to the PA from that for the FOH and then use the amp only as a personal monitor (so not using the di from the amp) you could cut a lot of the lows on the amp and boost the upper mids and treble. It won't be a sexy sound, but it will cut through and you'd be able to hear it without badly affecting the FOH tone.

More volume alone is just going to cause more problems, not least to your hearing.

ChrisCox1994

Edit* double pst

fretmeister

Did you mean to duplicate your posts?

ChrisCox1994

fretmeister said:

Did you mean to duplicate your posts?

Nope I posted from mobile and I think it doubled it for some reason....

ChrisCox1994

fretmeister said:

Which ACS filters are you using?

It might actually better to increase the attenuation and remove some boom.

Then if you can put a di box last on your pedalboard go direct to the PA from that for the FOH and then use the amp only as a personal monitor (so not using the di from the amp) you could cut a lot of the lows on the amp and boost the upper mids and treble. It won't be a sexy sound, but it will cut through and you'd be able to hear it without badly affecting the FOH tone.

More volume alone is just going to cause more problems, not least to your hearing.

Di to FOH could be a great idea! Also I think the markbass has a pre/post eq switch so I could try that then. 

The line out level is also separate to the master volume on the speaker so as long as I don't touch the gain I can tweak both EQ and volume from stage without messing up the foh

fretmeister

That should do it.