The ultimate multi-channel amp?

andyg_prs

To avoid the blah blah and get to the actual questions go to ***HERE***


I have ping-ponged between modellers and real amp set ups for decades.

I used to judge an amp on its cleans and it's most outrageous gain - probably driven by youth, 80s rock/metal, followed by my Prog Rock / metal bands....  I also always played in reggae bands on the side.....so that focuses on the clean sounds again.

Having had outrageously complex guitar switching systems (including at one stage having two tube amps blended - variably on the fly of course), I then had a DV Multiamp (I loved the idea of controlling the channels and basic parameters with pots on the front panel) but at the time it seemed the gain sounds were all variations of themselves and sounded the same once tweaked a bit, and the crunch sound never sounded quite realistic enough for me.  I think I damaged some V30s with it too....

I then went to a Kemper and that worked fantastically well for the Prog Rock / Metal band - incredibly quick to set up, changing between diametrically opposed sounds in an instant, super easy to access boosts/effects via the remote, and the morph was the absolute best.....there I would have more gain, mids, volume and delay on an expression pedal....and just push in more where I felt the need.  BUT - sometimes it would glitch and sound like a cocked wah was left on....and I lost some faith in it despite total factory resets and other trouble shooting.   A combination of that particular band folding and playing in a rock covers band actually pushed me away from the Kemper. 

The rehearsal room for the covers band is a nightmare.....even though the X32 is a well respected PA with quality Yamaha (huge) monitors, even though the singer had an iPad controller and said 'here, tweak whatever you like'....the shape of the room, the volume, along with the 2 guitar set up meant I hated everything in there.....and the Kemper sounded horrible.  AndI could never hear myself properly.

I then tried an AX8 - which the other guitarist also had.....but I could never really hear myself....perhaps we were using too similar tones....

Ultimately I went back to my Engl Ironball, with a pedalboard built around an ES-5 with two different gain pedals over the clean channel and the Engl 'ugly' for most of the stuff. 

I also use a CaptorX.  Another fixation I have is that most sound engineers don't seem to care, or have the time, or perhaps the skills (or any combo) to mic things properly....so the CaptorX is great for consistency. 
I even programmed the mute button on the ES-5 to take me to a preset with a bit more volume and more of the great 'enhancer' function, for leads via a midi change.  So....that set up is pretty good.  With a pedalsnake going between the pedalboard and the amp, it's pretty tidy....takes a bit longer to set up on stage than I would like, but it's ok.

Roll forward and the two most important bands in my life are an original band....that still has rock moments...but has a lot of funk / indie and in between sounds.....and a 7-piece country band which is awesome and has been an amazing learning experience.

Now for the country band, even though I did some tweaking of my Engl setup...I've found the AX8 to be most appropriate.....I have my clean, tremolo, slapback delay, std delay and a couple of levels of drive on demand.  It works.....it doesn't delight me, but it works.

And for the original band....the Engl/CaptorX/pedalboard works.....but doesn't perhaps inspire me.....

So ***HERE*** now what I'm considering is an amp that excels in clean / break up / overdrive sounds.....perhaps using a pedal over the clean channel for the ungodly high gain sounds.

As it is, I really don't like full sized amp heads anymore, and would rather not even use a cab....so a built in IR function would be great.

I think I tried one of the Revv things in a shop once.....and although I hear great things, and although Sean Tubbs has done amazing demos, I didn't like it at all.....and wasn't inspired to spend more time with it.

There is the Engl Ironball SE (I bought the CaptorX during the endless wait for its release)....I know the clean and high gain are great on the original Ironball.  It would give me the built in noise gate and even delay - although I use 'normal' delay and slapback....and I like to use an expression pedal for the mix....so not sure how much it would help me.  The question is if it would just give me a slightly slimmed down version of what I have.  Also......it's really the 'enhancer' function of the CaptorX that helped me break through in a two guitar situation, and I have no idea if I could emulate that with an IR?

For other lunchbox amps, I've always been fascinated by the idea of the 3534- but I'm not sure if again that's all about the clean and the high gain and not much in between?  And of course, I'd still need the CaptorX....but hey, I own that already.

Then there is the PT15IR.......super expensive.......but I do wonder whether that could do exactly what I need....the clean, the hair of gain (pedal over clean or just the second channel on minimal gain?) and then the 3rd channel of leads .........and an EQ or other pedal for Engl levels of gain/punch.  I guess I'll never know until I try it.....and again, I'll never know if the IRs would achieve what I need in the two guitar set up without the CaptorX enhancer 'secret spices'.

Has anyone else been on a similar journey or have ideas to share?

I haven't had the oft quote issue of EL84s lacking 'heft' vs big tubes EL34 or 6L6......so I wish there were a lunchbox version of the JVM 410..... Also I had a Legacy 3 that was lunchbox size / weight and had EL34s (too woody for rhythm).....I even had a brief dalliance with a Victory V30 mkII with 6L6 tubes lunchbox sized again......

I thought about the MT15 but I was told it was clean and then loads of gain....or ridiculous gain only......

Enough verbage.....multichannel amp experiences please.......or if you have a totally different approach, let me know.

Cheers,
Andy

PS - Mesa Boogie gets mentioned a lot.  I tried a Mk IV or V combo in a shop.....but nobody explained where the EQ was in the stack, so I couldn't get the sounds I wanted out of it.  I tried a mini rec against the Ironball and went for the Ironball.  There is the 25Watt Mark V......but it's 'only' 2 channels.

PPS - regardless of the treble bleed values I've used....I've not had much luck taming a higher gain sound to a crunch, it always sounds 'meh' to me....

Nerine

I would consider a Fractal FM9 (or similar) into a power amp (SD Powerstage or similar) and 1x12 (or similar) speaker cab. 

You can have all the tones. 

You can hear yourself. 

You can go straight to the FOH with IRs at the same time. 

It’s consistent. 

Less IR hassle for your stage sound. 

It sounds epic. 

It’s kind of a halfway house between your varying setups. 

Annnnnd the Fractal into an Fx return or power amp and guitar speaker sounds absolutely bang on. It’s silly good. 

I think guitar speaker on stage and IRs to FOH is the best combo. My rig is sounding absolutely massive in this config right now. 

Might be worth looking into. 

Boromedic

Can highly recommend the PT15IR, sounds like it would be perfect for you tbh. There's a massive thread on TGP about it which may answer more questions for you but in the main it's great. I own one and it does exactly what you suggest. Although for real high gain an EQ pedal and perhaps a TS9 will make that side work better for you. Works seamlessly with my Disaster Area DPC5.

Kebabkid

My first thought was the PT15IR and that's been mentioned.

The Suhr Hedgehog is also a fantastic and versatile amp and there was one for sale on here but it's been withdrawn.

I do own a PRS MT-15 and it's a great lunchbox head for very little money. It's portable, loud (no way is it 15w and people say it's closer to 35w). I use mine with a Mesa Boogie Mini Rectifier 1x12 Slant cab and it's a good portable rig.

 The clean channel is really good and it takes pedals very well and has loads of headroom and the boost on it gives you a different flavour.

The gain channel is also good but I don't use it. It's  clear with decent clarity but it's pretty full on from the get-go. That said, using a low-med gain pedal on the clean channel will give you your crunch/rhythm channel or use just use the clean channel with a couple of overdrive pedals, which is what I do . Paul Drew of The Studio Rats has a good demo up of it.

Sticking with Paul Drew, he also did a great demo of the Laney Ironheart and that, too, could tick your boxes. They can be had used for a few hundred pounds



Shawn Tubbs' Revv amp looks good but once again, pricey

digitalscream

I went through this, time after time. I've reached the conclusion that the answer is either the HX Stomp -> power amp and cab, or a Bogner Red (possibly with a boost in front of it) into a clean amp.

Or an ADA MP-1.

gumbothewiddler

Best multichannel amp I’ve had was either a Rivera knucklehead or my old bonehad . Great cleans (Paul Rivera knows a thing or two about fender cleans) and lovely gain channels. I never used the third channel on the ones I had as they were too much gain.

I suspect their combos do similarly great multi channels if you don’t want to lug a massive head about and a used one won’t be big money these days.

Boromedic

There was a PT15IR for sale on eBay and the seller, James, is on here too. Might be worth a cheeky offer if it's still available. Has a Flightcase and stuff too.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115947207795?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=oiVHcqUOSsy&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=CjM5xQvSQSS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

andyg_prs

Boromedic said:

There was a PT15IR for sale on eBay and the seller, James, is on here too. Might be worth a cheeky offer if it's still available. Has a Flightcase and stuff too.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115947207795?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=oiVHcqUOSsy&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=CjM5xQvSQSS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Cheers - I'd have to try it first for such an expensive bit of kit.....and if it's the one on eBay....I wouldn't want the flight case and I wouldn't be paying over 2k......I know how I chop and change kit and so I buy at a level that I can minimise my losses

Boromedic

andyg_prs said:

Boromedic said:

There was a PT15IR for sale on eBay and the seller, James, is on here too. Might be worth a cheeky offer if it's still available. Has a Flightcase and stuff too.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115947207795?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=oiVHcqUOSsy&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=CjM5xQvSQSS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Cheers - I'd have to try it first for such an expensive bit of kit.....and if it's the one on eBay....I wouldn't want the flight case and I wouldn't be paying over 2k......I know how I chop and change kit and so I buy at a level that I can minimise my losses

No worries, I can completely understand that! You're welcome to try mine but geography is against you unfortunately

Peach rarely have an IR version in stock, don't know about GG?

Beexter

The most flexible multi channel amp I've ever played is my Mesa Express 5-25+
It has 2 channels with a choice of two voices on each channel. Each channel has fully independent eq, gain, reverb and volume. Then, on top of that, you have a post gain 5 band graphic EQ or contour EQ which can be applied separately to each channel giving you pre and post gain EQ options. Of course, you can also choose not to apply the post gain EQ.
As if that wasn't enough, there is an adjustable volume boost which can be kicked in on either channel.
Still want more options? How about the choice of 3 different power levels (5, 15 or 25 watts) which can be independently selected for each channel. Oh, and an effects loop to complete the picture. All of that crammed into an amp head that is slightly bigger than the lunchbox heads but a lot smaller than the regular Marshall/ Orange heads.
I've had it longer than any other amp I've ever owned exactly because it is so versatile.

Stratavarious

Once you get the cascading gain of earlier Boogies, they are fab.   I can get the full spectrum of super punchy cleans, crunch and mega gain with my old MKIII.  Just weighs as much as a planet.

My Marshall DSL40CR with the 6 buttons switch is properly versatile. Great live gigging amp. 4 distinct tones and a solo boost. Crunch is top class.  Worth a try. 

StefB

Hughes & Kettner Grandmeister (36 or 40, I prefer the 36). Covers a lot of your requirements although the clean channel isn’t the best. 

And the 50w EVH 5150 6L6 Mkii is currently floating my boat for the sounds you need, albeit without any kind of in built DI, although you already have the Captor of course. 

I agree a lunchbox/small format version of the JVM410 would be a bit of a holy grail too. 

andyg_prs

@Beexter you know that's really interesting - I don't know enough about Mesas, and maybe it's snobbery but I thought the Nomad and Express things were on the budget side....but please educate me....are they like the Mark series, or something else?

And does the EQ allow you to push the gain of the amp....in other words, between those two channels, on the fly at a gig, could you have a lovely Fender-ish clean.....and perhaps use the EQ to push it into a very slightly overdriven sound.....and on the higher gain channel, could you have a rich overdrive....and use the EQ to push that into a more aggressive metal type tone?

@Stratavarious - I read and thought I understood about how the eq and controls interact on, I think, the Mark series of Mesas....but I don't have one so I've forgotten again.  Is it the same for all of them.....or is there an easy way to understand?

@StefB - the H&K Grandmeister does look interesting but the Clean channel is very very important for me.  What is it about the 36 you prefer?

Thanks,
Andy

andyg_prs

I also just had to share some really horrible demos of the express range!

https://youtu.be/UrKpuolBFD0?t=506

https://youtu.be/WK05_b_7_gQ?t=50

https://youtu.be/77CLWo3BNdM?t=27

Stratavarious

Up to Mark IV, mesas have a cascade gain across the range, so each gain influences the next from the single input gain.  Later models, each channel block is its own gain, EQ, master, just like most other multichannel amps.

My MkIii has three channels, R1, R2 and Lead with an assignable/switchable EQ which can shape or boost as needed.  The initial gain and bright switch sets the overall tone character.

Their manuals are good.   Certainly pro level sounds.  Do try a Mesa Exprsss or smaller MKV

A boost pedal (I use an MXR microamp) with the guitar controls also lets you saturate a crunch / dirt setting and dial,back to bluesy cleans.  So I find two channels is enough if you get the sweet spot for clean/crunch. It’s like adding the extra channels.

StefB

@StefB - the H&K Grandmeister does look interesting but the Clean channel is very very important for me.  What is it about the 36 you prefer?

The 36 just had more character from memory and sounded better to my ears.  The release of the 40 seemed like little more than the emperor's new clothes, a new version just for the sake of it if you will.

I had both, sold both, and when I fancied another sought out a 36 specifically.  The clean channel isn't bad, don't get me wrong, but just probably isn't as good as you've become used to.