What cable/connectors for DIY guitar cable?

guitarfishbay

As per title. Are neutrik the go to for connectors? How about the cable of choice - sommer? What are you guys making guitar cables from these days and where are you buying components from? Looking to make 'made to last' cables so wanting to know what the good stuff is. Cheers.

ThePrettyDamned

I use neutrik angled and van damme pro cable.  Super easy to work with both, and even with my limited soldering skills, my patch cables are reliable so far. 

Cheap cable, but the jacks really escalate the price a lot.

guitarfishbay

Cool. I'm doing it for my main guitar leads. Going to make 4 I think - 2 for home 2 for band use, will probably make 20 footers for band and 10 foot for home to avoid tangling.

ThePrettyDamned

I've heard that some folk think van damme pro sucks tone...

I really don't believe them to be honest, it's not the lowest capacitance but it's fine plugged straight into the amp! So can't be that bad.

Fuzzdog

Neutrik and Van Damme Pro here as well - haven't noticed any tone suck, I only do runs of 15ft maximum though.  Certainly sounds at least as good as most of the fancy cables I've bought over the years.

ecc83

I gave up using single screened "guitar" cables some years ago.

Decent quality "balanced" mic cable is at least the same cost if not cheaper and if you wire it such that you have one "hot" core and tie the cold core to screen you get the lowest possible capacitance. This connection mode also greatly reduces cable microphonics.

Plus of course you can make mic leads and even headphone extensions with it.

Dave.

RobDavies

Van Damme is as good as gold. 

I made a 25m cable for someone playing the main (huge) stage at Hellfest in France. 

No tone suck there at all.

Megii

ecc83 said:

I gave up using single screened "guitar" cables some years ago.

Decent quality "balanced" mic cable is at least the same cost if not cheaper and if you wire it such that you have one "hot" core and tie the cold core to screen you get the lowest possible capacitance. This connection mode also greatly reduces cable microphonics.

Plus of course you can make mic leads and even headphone extensions with it.

Dave.

An interesting comment - and I don't have the expertise to know, but surely it can't be that simple can it? If doing this really worked so well, and made a superior guitar cable, then why wouldn't all guitar cables be made in this way, with balanced mic cable? Just asking the question, not criticizing - as I say, I don't have the knowledge to do that.  

guitarfishbay

Ok thanks guys, will give the Van Damme/Neutrik combo a go.

Danny1969

Megii said:

ecc83 said:

I gave up using single screened "guitar" cables some years ago.

Decent quality "balanced" mic cable is at least the same cost if not cheaper and if you wire it such that you have one "hot" core and tie the cold core to screen you get the lowest possible capacitance. This connection mode also greatly reduces cable microphonics.

Plus of course you can make mic leads and even headphone extensions with it.

Dave.

An interesting comment - and I don't have the expertise to know, but surely it can't be that simple can it? If doing this really worked so well, and made a superior guitar cable, then why wouldn't all guitar cables be made in this way, with balanced mic cable? Just asking the question, not criticizing - as I say, I don't have the knowledge to do that.  

The guitar cable is a model of a capacitor in as much as it has a conductive "plates"  the area of it's conductors (core and screen) and the insulation between the conductors acts as the dielectric. The more metres of cable the more capacitance because the plate area is bigger

Now the size of a capacitor in uf is determined not only by the size of the plates but  also how thin the dielectric is ..... so by only using one hot and connecting the other to screen your reducing the size of one of the plates and increasing the size of the dielectric therefore lowering the capacitance  

That's what I think Dave means, whever he's right is another matter But I make all my none balanced guitar and line cables in the manner he suggest

Megii

Danny1969 said:

Megii said:

ecc83 said:

I gave up using single screened "guitar" cables some years ago.

Decent quality "balanced" mic cable is at least the same cost if not cheaper and if you wire it such that you have one "hot" core and tie the cold core to screen you get the lowest possible capacitance. This connection mode also greatly reduces cable microphonics.

Plus of course you can make mic leads and even headphone extensions with it.

Dave.

An interesting comment - and I don't have the expertise to know, but surely it can't be that simple can it? If doing this really worked so well, and made a superior guitar cable, then why wouldn't all guitar cables be made in this way, with balanced mic cable? Just asking the question, not criticizing - as I say, I don't have the knowledge to do that.  

The guitar cable is a model of a capacitor in as much as it has a conductive "plates"  the area of it's conductors (core and screen) and the insulation between the conductors acts as the dielectric. The more metres of cable the more capacitance because the plate area is bigger

Now the size of a capacitor in uf is determined not only by the size of the plates but  also how thin the dielectric is ..... so by only using one hot and connecting the other to screen your reducing the size of one of the plates and increasing the size of the dielectric therefore lowering the capacitance  

That's what I think Dave means, whever he's right is another matter But I make all my none balanced guitar and line cables in the manner he suggest

Appreciate that explanation, cheers @Danny1969 - maybe I'll give it a go at some point and see what I think, I don't tend to use very long cables anyhow, but did once buy some cheap (i.e. 50p a metre) guitar cable (described as "low capacitance"!) to make up some leads, and even with a 10 foot lead, it did horrible things to the tone.

ICBM

The reason commercial guitar cables are not made from balanced mic cable is very simply that it's slightly more expensive than single-core instrument cable, and possibly that there is a small extra labour cost in assembling them. It might not seem much of a difference but if you're making hundreds or thousands of cables it becomes so.

The other reason using twin-core cable is better is that it's more reliable, since both the shield and the 'cold' wires have to break before the ground connection is broken. This matters more even than stopping the 'hot' core breaking because that will just produce silence or a mild hum, whereas breaking the ground causes a very loud hum... not good at gig volume!

Gassage

Pete Cornish uses Belkin 8412 for all his interconnects. It's relatively cheap but outstanding cable

SquireJapan

Gassage said:

Pete Cornish uses Belkin 8412 for all his interconnects. It's relatively cheap but outstanding cable

Funny you should mention, I'm tempted to buy a reel of the stuff and just replace all my patch leads and cables. You can buy it in shorter lengths obviously, but the 100ft reel is pretty barginous.

He also uses Switchcraft 226 jacks for patch cables (+some voodoo according to his website). They're cheap if you buy 25 or 50 (good price breaks).

(Btw, it's Belden, not Belkin )

ThePrettyDamned

SquireJapan said:

Gassage said:

Pete Cornish uses Belkin 8412 for all his interconnects. It's relatively cheap but outstanding cable

Funny you should mention, I'm tempted to buy a reel of the stuff and just replace all my patch leads and cables. You can buy it in shorter lengths obviously, but the 100ft reel is pretty barginous.

He also uses Switchcraft 226 jacks for patch cables (+some voodoo according to his website). They're cheap if you buy 25 or 50 (good price breaks).

(Btw, it's Belden, not Belkin )

What voodoo is that?  SUrely you just... Er...

Solder them up?

ICBM

Ah, but it's *how* you solder them up that imparts the voodoo…

Bod

Which suppliers do you guys use?

SquireJapan

ICBM;386935" said:

Ah, but it's *how* you solder them up that imparts the voodoo…

I find the most difficult bit is getting a clean sacrifice on the virgin. It's more of a knack thing than it is technique.

Practice makes perfect, as they say.

Bod said:

Which suppliers do you guys use?

I've not used them, but I was looking at http://uk.mouser.com/ . They stock both the 8412 and the switchcraft jacks. I've been meaning to post here to gauge interest on a "group buy". i.e. we'd get together and buy a load off them (and get the good price breaks). I don't really need 100 jack connectors, but I do like the price ...

links:

Cable: http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Belden-Wire-Cable/8412-010100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs5/3jTaGtq4K0qP2YKd7fbk0Ad4HUi1nk=

226 Jack: http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Switchcraft/226/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtUpMOmSPzkHwo0fVD%2b%2bkK3

General link to the switchcraft site (so you can look up their other connectors, e.g. the pancake ones): http://www.switchcraft.com/productsummary.aspx?Parent=400

Also some people like to use TechFlex on their cables to make them look cool (and maybe slightly more durable) - http://www.digikey.com/suppliers/us/techflex.page?lang=en

If you were making something other than patch cables (i.e. guitar to pedalboard etc) you'd probably want some nice heatshrink to give some cable relief (the switchcraft jacks don't have anything really). The TechFlex makes more sense on the guitar cable btw, as it's supposed to save the cable a bit if it gets trapped, snagged or stood on etc. 

It's not that expensive and it does look cool - not sure on the real value though.

ThePrettyDamned

Neutrik jacks have built in stress relief - when you put the plug together, you screw a plastic sleeve up. This not only holds it together, but it's compressed, grabs the cables and as it's screwed up into the jack, it reduced tension.

Hard work screwing them together! I use pliers to grab it. However, once done, it's solid and you should have a pretty reliable cable.

Edit: this is true for full size jacks. Not sure about pancakes and whatnot.

breadfan

^ Neutrik jacks are the business. I'd recommend going with them over the Switchcrafts. 

Neutrik don't do pancake style plugs, as far as I'm aware.

ICBM

No, they don't. That's the only problem with them, if you need very low profile right-angle plugs. For everything else, they're the best by a wide margin.

The new smaller PX series are my favourites for instrument cables, both the straight and the right-angle, although I still like the old larger NP2Cs for speaker cables.

There's no other design that eliminates the weak points of the centre rivet, contact join in the ground path and cable clamp in the way these do.