What cable/connectors for DIY guitar cable?

ecc83

Sorry chaps!

I did not mean to imply that I have found the answer to the meaning of life WRT cables!

No, the capacitance of the hot core to screen is decided by the cable type and construction as always but I meant to make it clear that the LOWEST capacitance is given by using just one core.

I have a 100mtr drum of (very poor quality) mic cable handy and the capacitances come out thus..

Core to core  160 puff per mtr

Red core to screen   260ppmtr

white core to screen  321ppmtr

red with Wt to scrn     263ppmtr

r+w to screen             527ppmtr

This is very small diameter cable and bigger, ~6mm mic cable would have lower capacitances. The cheap stuff is however quite good enough for semi-static patch leads in a home studio!

BTW I measured the capacitances of the whole drum with a Fluke 83 DMM and divided by 100!

Dave.

ecc83

Like to say to Mr Dammned!

If you have a lot of plugs to fit buy a tube of silicone grease. Makes the screwing a lot easier (shut up at the back there!!)

I "acquired" a tube some 5 years ago and have made up 100s of cables since and I still have some left!

RS PT # 494-124

Dave.

Cabicular

ecc83 said:

I gave up using single screened "guitar" cables some years ago.

Decent quality "balanced" mic cable is at least the same cost if not cheaper and if you wire it such that you have one "hot" core and tie the cold core to screen you get the lowest possible capacitance. This connection mode also greatly reduces cable microphonics.

Plus of course you can make mic leads and even headphone extensions with it.

Dave.

Smart! That's an excellent plan. Cheers

Dave_Mc

Gassage said:

Pete Cornish uses Belkin 8412 for all his interconnects. It's relatively cheap but outstanding cable

Isn't that what Vertex used? )

ecc83 said:

If you have a lot of plugs to fit buy a tube of silicone grease. Makes the screwing a lot easier (shut up at the back there!!)

LOL

EdGrip

My new favourite is Sommer "The Spirit" XXL - combining excellent properties with a supremely unwieldy name. Cheapest way to buy it is as a 20m made-up guitar cable from Thomann (get some of their nice white Neutriks while you're at it) - then cut it up to taste. I've also got a few meters of the Bill'n'Becky Lawrence low-capacitance cable. 

Also, just so's people know - Neutrik jacks are made to be adjustable to fit big or little cable. You know the clamp has the U-shaped section that points towards the plug and fits over the solder connections? At the end of that is a little bit a couple of mm wide that you can break off. Break it off for bigger cables. It's a spacer that pushes the clamp chuck further into the screw collar. With really fat cable you may even need to shave a bit more off with a knife if you ever want to be able to unscrew the plug again.

(obligatory cable porn)

hywelg

Anything over 90pF/m is going to cause you tone suck. Unless you use a loop switcher to keep the majority of the cable out of the chain. Or you need to use a buffer.

Theres not getting away from the fact that Neutrik demand a huge amount of pedal board real estate. For every 6 pedals they will take up about a pedals worth of space. Switchcraft pancake jacks take up far less room, but for maximum space Lava cable jacks and cable cant be bettered IMO.

Dave_Mc

^ That's what I'm currently struggling with. I've had absolutely no problems with my neutrik jacks, but I'm trying to get my pedalboard sorted and I can't shake the pretty obvious feeling that with pancake jacks I could probably sneak an extra pedal in per row (and that's with me creatively staggering the pedals so that I'm only effectively using one neutrik connector's space between each pedal, not both). Even if I couldn't, it'd be a much less tight and more comfortable fit.

Do you have a link to the lava stuff? I suspect it'd be more than I want to pay, but I might as well take a look anyway to see what the options are. Currently I'm considering the hicon ones, since kabl and thomann offer them (as ready-made cables) at a reasonable price.

robinbowes

Lava cables kits: http://www.thegigrig.com/acatalog/Lava-Cable-Kits.html#SID=15

hywelg

Yes they were expensive, but the 'Tightrope' version is cheaper, but I've not tried those. I paid about £70 for 10 RA jacks and 10' of cable but I did opt for the black/gold connectors which are dearer.

TBH I dont understand why anyone would use soldered cables for a pedal board, the convenience, space saving and reliability of the Lava cables is a no brainer to me. I had terrible trouble with George L cables but the Lava stuff has been ultra reliable.
http://www.effectpowersupplies.com/lava-cable-160-c.asp
http://www.soundsgreatmusic.com/products/lava-cable-tightrope-solder-free-kit-gold-jacks
http://www.peachguitars.com/accessories/lava-cable-solder-free-patch-cable-kit-nickel-right-angle-plugs.htm?gclid=CPPpkfXaxcECFW3JtAodlF0Atw

ThePrettyDamned

ecc83;390038" said:

Like to say to Mr Dammned! If you have a lot of plugs to fit buy a tube of silicone grease. Makes the screwing a lot easier (shut up at the back there!!) I "acquired" a tube some 5 years ago and have made up 100s of cables since and I still have some left!RS PT # 494-124

Dave.

Funny you say that, I've tried vaseline and even a lithium grease for bikes.

Both were... Er... Greasy. Worked a treat Thanks for the tip!

Dave_Mc

robinbowes said:

Lava cables kits: http://www.thegigrig.com/acatalog/Lava-Cable-Kits.html#SID=15

Thanks

hywelg said:

Yes they were expensive, but the 'Tightrope' version is cheaper, but I've not tried those. I paid about £70 for 10 RA jacks and 10' of cable but I did opt for the black/gold connectors which are dearer.

TBH I dont understand why anyone would use soldered cables for a pedal board, the convenience, space saving and reliability of the Lava cables is a no brainer to me. I had terrible trouble with George L cables but the Lava stuff has been ultra reliable.
http://www.effectpowersupplies.com/lava-cable-160-c.asp
http://www.soundsgreatmusic.com/products/lava-cable-tightrope-solder-free-kit-gold-jacks
http://www.peachguitars.com/accessories/lava-cable-solder-free-patch-cable-kit-nickel-right-angle-plugs.htm?gclid=CPPpkfXaxcECFW3JtAodlF0Atw

Thanks

ecc83

"Pete Cornish uses Belkin 8412 for all his interconnects. It's relatively cheap but outstanding cable "

I can find little hard data on 8412 except that its capacitance is given as 33puff per FOOT* which is of course some 99pp mtr and a tad over the suggested limit for low "suck"!

However, that capacitance figure is not qualified as to core (which?) to screen or core to core and as we have seen, that matters a  lot.

Personally I would not sweat the cap' value. I would think most amps could make up the loss with tone pots? OR! Buy or make a buffer!

I know there are purists out there that get twitchy with the very thought of "silicon" but a well designed op-amp buffer really is transparent. There are now better FET chips than the venerable TL07X series, ones that will swing closer to the supply rail if you insist on only 9volts. I would personally go for 12.

*Beware if checking cable capacitances. In addition to knowing what the measurement applies to the figures can look good until you realize it is Yanky specc' and puffs per foot. Here capacitances are usually given in pp mtr.

Same goes for resistance. X Ohms per 100ft is NOT the same as 100mtrs! (or indeed 100 yards)

Not that cable resistance really ever bothers us. (Oh! And be careful who sees Vaseline in you workshop/gig bag!)

Dave.

breadfan

ecc83 said:

*Beware if checking cable capacitances. In addition to knowing what the measurement applies to the figures can look good until you realize it is Yanky specc' and puffs per foot. Here capacitances are usually given in pp mtr.

This is a good tip - I was caught out once before!