I just cannot decide - my rig is annoying me.

Nerine

I've been pondering this for some time now...

Currently it's:

Fractal FM9 into Friedman Small Box Combo (which is also in the classifieds) FX return (no cab sims obvs). Stereo out (with Cab Block) to PA. Sounds good. I like it.

Cons: Hauling combo around (could be worse, I know). Preamp/rest of amp is currently a bit redundant. As good as it sounds as a standalone amp, I'm a bit bored of it too. I've used it a lot over the last 4/5 years, but only really channel 1. Would like a more focussed/less hackneyed solution. I'm a bit obsessive and I don't really like having unused functionality - even if it's probably good to plug into the front end as a back up if the FM9 went down - which seems unlikely.

What I'd like is:

A power amp and cab setup. Two separate entities. The cab(s) will be 1x12. I'd ideally like stereo, too because all the effects etc just sound soooooo much nicer. 

I've kind of narrowed down the search to the Fryette and Seymour Duncan stuff. 

Where I'm stuck is:

Valve vs Transistor power sections. I feel like the Fryette (Power Station - likely the 2a) will sound better.

None of the Fryettes will do Stereo unless you go for the 19" LX II (or larger) which seems to be adding more hauling into the equation, which I'm trying to get away from. 

The Powerstations have great functionality - I'd like to potentially get a low wattage (Marshall SV/SC20 or Pink Taco) or similar in the future. The amplifier section of the Fryettes would be amazing for this. Plus I really like being able to add an FX loop to an amp that doesn't otherwise have one. I need different volume levels at gigs. Boost in the loop has always been crucial to me. 

The PS100 has even better functionality but is hampered by only one speaker output, so without modding and cabs with through outputs etc, you're kinda stuck with one cab. I might want to use more. 

The Duncan Powerstage 700 is plenty loud, is stereo, is smaller, lighter, is kind of embracing the no valves/low maintenance/consistency thing, but it *might* not sound quite as nice. 

I heard Simon Jarratt(sp?) from Kingsley pedals YouTube vid and thought the Fryette sounded objectively "better" than the SD. But perhaps it could be dialled to sound closer. 

I like the modular aspect of having a pair of 1x12's that can be run in stereo for larger places and stacked in smaller ones, and just moving one small cab around for rehearsals etc. 

The Duncan enables this easily and at less cost, but I lose potential future flexibility and attenuation requirements and general cool hook up options you get with the Fryette - I also still have my JCM800 and 2x12 sat around, which I sometimes forget I own, tbh. 

The Fryette is valve so will likely need maintenance or new valves at some point, doesn't allow stereo, is heavier, is limiting the intended modular nature of what I see in my head, but may sound nicer. 

Like wtf is the choice here?!

The Fractal rig is awesome and I love it, and I love finding new sounds in it, although I find the board it's on a little large and cumbersome, so I may decide on a simpler/smaller footprint setup down the line - Maybe a Friedman IR-X and a few pedals or something. In that case, the Fryette would be what I'd choose, because stereo isn't really an option, but then again, because I know myself and it absolutely haunts me since I tried it out, I'm just as likely to ditch it all and get a Soldano SLO30. Or none of the above.

Perhaps the questions really are how important is stereo, will the Fryette require maintenance, will the Fryette sound better? 

The Duncan seems kind of ideal but it just is what it is. It doesn't really do much other than amplify (in stereo). That said, the inclusion of an EQ on the front panel is really nice, and would be great for quick dialling in in various different rooms etc. It'll also likely be a bit cheaper.

 It's a tricky one, IMO. I don't really know which side of the fence to fall off on... 

jasonbone75

This is such a personal choice especially with your existing knowledge of the options! I think the only thing I would say "categorically, definitely" is that the valve character is already in the amp models so neutral and solid state all the way for making things louder. Any modelling rig I would personally leave valves out of the equation.

Snags

Throwing a total spanner in the works, if you want stereo. Elsewhere a number of people have been extremely happy pairing the FM9 with the new Fender FR12 powered cabs. Particularly after making an apparently simple mod (if you don't mind soldering) to get rid of the noise floor on the FRFR amps.

Roland

This is just for you, right? Not your band mates or the audience? I’d start with practical considerations.

The first thing to say is that your audience aren’t going to hear what you hear, especially if your PA is mono. Even if it’s stereo ping pong delays (to name an extreme example) probably aren’t going to work for people at the side of the room. 

As a player you respond to what you hear. Stereo FX will make you feel better, and probably help you play better, but … Monitors only works in stereo if you’re standing between them. If space is tight, or you want to cosy up to the singer then space is a premium. It’s also one more thing to put in your car.

Nerine said:. I don't really know which side of the fence to fall off on... 

I’d jump off the third side, and go for IEMs. 

jasonbone75

I would always go for IEMs too for what it is worth :-)

Nerine

jasonbone75 said:

This is such a personal choice especially with your existing knowledge of the options! I think the only thing I would say "categorically, definitely" is that the valve character is already in the amp models so neutral and solid state all the way for making things louder. Any modelling rig I would personally leave valves out of the equation.

Yeah, I've also read that the FM9 performs better into the Powerstation with all the Speaker Impedance curve modelling etc turned off, which then means they aren't active on your direct tone, either, unless you go silly routing and duplicating amp blocks etc, which would be a massive faff, and potentially a bit of a down mark against the Fryette.

Roland said:

This is just for you, right? Not your band mates or the audience? I’d start with practical considerations.

The first thing to say is that your audience aren’t going to hear what you hear, especially if your PA is mono. Even if it’s stereo ping pong delays (to name an extreme example) probably aren’t going to work for people at the side of the room. 

As a player you respond to what you hear. Stereo FX will make you feel better, and probably help you play better, but … Monitors only works in stereo if you’re standing between them. If space is tight, or you want to cosy up to the singer then space is a premium. It’s also one more thing to put in your car.

Nerine said:. I don't really know which side of the fence to fall off on... 

I’d jump off the third side, and go for IEMs. 

RE: IEMS. Already have/use them. Don't use them on every gig, mind. Sometimes I prefer without. Usually prefer singing without them as I find I can judge my voice in the room better. The PA and all the band's IEMs are stereo. I've found stereo really helps IEM mixes. Much easier to hear stuff. My IEM mix sounds like a decently mixed record most of the time. I've got 14 aux outs on my desk, so a bit spoilt really. 

You raise a good point, though. Mainly it's for "me". I've found the stereo fx - choruses, reverbs and ping pong delays etc to sound epic in IEMs and due to the size of the places we *usually* play, really effective and noticeable in the FOH (if the crowd cares - they probably don't), too. Provided of course, you're somewhere in the centre and not standing behind the PA stack on one side for example. That said, with the din the rest of the band makes, the effect is gonna be less pronounced and masked a bit. 

I'd also admittedly not necessarily be able to take advantage of having the stereo field on the stage, depending on the venue. At one point, I thought it'd be cool to have cabs either side of the drummer but then ultimately, you're probably gonna run into issues with comb filtering and stuff, and it's a bit egregious and loads of extra setup hassle.

I'd likely have the cabs next to each other most of the time - side by side or stacked up, so realistically, the spread ain't gonna be real (or at all) wide, especially if you're standing 15-20ft in front of it. It'll nearly sound like a mono source anyway. 

Either way, I like having some stage sound and some PA sound. I will sometimes run IEMs on top of that too. Having the cab on stage allows me to ditch IEMs for a song or two or even a whole set if I feel like it. Plus I feel it just balances up the centre image of the band a bit too. Almost like having a centre fill on a PA system.  

Kinda feels like a lot of option paralysis at the min. Hence my slightly tongue in cheek comment of binning everything off and just getting a simple head and cab and something like a Two Notes Captor or something for the direct bit of the equation... Spose I could always run the Fractal in 4CM mode... and send the fx send from an amp to a separate cab block'd output for the PA...

Roland

In addition to IEMs I run a single powered speaker. It’s connected, but often turned right down unless the venue needs centre fill. It adds a bit of life to the guitar, and it’s a backup in case the IEMs fail.

Nerine

I think I’m erring on the side of the Powerstage 700. 

I went to a monthly jam night on Wednesday. One of my friends had bought his amp along. A Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb. I’ve never played through one before and I gotta say, I thought it was excellent. 

TheMarlin

I have very nice cab and speaker going cheap

Nerine

TheMarlin said:

I have very nice cab and speaker going cheap

The one with the Union Jack grille cloth? 

TheMarlin

Nerine said:

TheMarlin said:

I have very nice cab and speaker going cheap

The one with the Union Jack grille cloth? 

Yes, it’s got a Fane A60  Alnico. Sounds epic. 

The speaker usually sells for well over £200 by itself. 

 

Cab with speaker £225

Nerine

TheMarlin said:

Nerine said:

TheMarlin said:

I have very nice cab and speaker going cheap

The one with the Union Jack grille cloth? 

Yes, it’s got a Fane A60  Alnico. Sounds epic. 

The speaker usually sells for well over £200 by itself. 

 

Cab with speaker £225

No, thanks. 

NelsonP

I don't really understand the halfway house of modeller plus power amp and guitar cabs. You really need to dislike IRs for that to be a better solution than FRFR, as you still have the digital nature of modelling but lose a ton of flexibility.

I'd either go full in on amps, e.g. a Rocker 32 or an SC20, or stick with the FM9 and a couple of Laney LFRs.

Or, get a Mesa 50/50 and a couple of Zilla 1x12s?

Roland

NelsonP said:

I don't really understand the halfway house of modeller plus power amp and guitar cabs.

It gives you all the advantages of the modeller, plus the “amp in the room” feel which you can only get from a guitar cab standing next to you. 

Nerine

Roland said:

NelsonP said:

I don't really understand the halfway house of modeller plus power amp and guitar cabs.

It gives you all the advantages of the modeller, plus the “amp in the room” feel which you can only get from a guitar cab standing next to you. 

Yeah. This. I don’t really see it as a halfway house. I see it as the best of both worlds. 

NelsonP

Ah, I see

Nerine

So now it has taken all kinds of a swerve.

You could probably use this a case study into impulsiveness and Gear Acquisition Syndrome.

In rough chronological order:

Watched a Kingsley video where he's talking about power amps. Says he prefers the Powerstation to the Powerstage. His videos support this. The Fryette DOES sound better than the Duncan. I now must have the Fryette.

Friedman combo has sold in the meantime. 

Only have large JCM 800 as backup. Have a rehearsal Thursday and gigs on Friday and Saturday. Don't really wanna haul 800 and 2x12 around. 

Can't find a Fryette to buy. Everywhere seems to be out of stock. Price of the PS100 is getting a bit silly, too. Plus would need a cab on top, so looking at nearly £2k for the Fryette and decent cab. Meh. Expensive solution, IMO. 

Scanning Reverb and classifieds here. Saw an SLO 30 combo for sale (have played the head in a shop and thought it was jaw droppingly good, but had also had a few pints that day). Thought it would be an ideal sub for the Friedman and I'll run 4CM with the Fractal. Bought it. Quite impulsively.  

Did what anyone would do and started reading as much as possible about the SLO 30. Found some negative stuff. Listened to more clips and comparisons and then got worried that I've made a mistake and it won't be what I need. I then thought, I'll drive the amp back to the store after it's been delivered and return it. (It's not been delivered yet - I don't think I'll even unbox it.)

So back ampless (ish).

I've been looking at vintage 800's and Jubilees for a while. I've even considered some of the lesser liked 4210 models. I tried one at a gear fest and really liked it. Plus it fits the remit of 50 watts. Compact. Fx loop. Marshall voicing. Not stupid money. 

So I then bought a Marshall Jubilee 2554 from Reverb (on the same day I bought the SLO - all this happened yesterday) which will hopefully be delivered by Friday night in time for the first gig. 

I then went to get my JCM 800 and cab from my folks house and thought I'd indulge in some Marshall goodness (seeing as I'm now getting a Jubilee) and dial in the FM9 for some 4CM goodness in preparation.

Now I don't really like the sound of the Fractal running in 4CM mode in the Marshall. The amp sounds better plugged into my pedalboard, I think. 

So now I'm thinking I'll keep the SLO and the Jube, perhaps ditch the 800 (due to size) and the Fractal and revamp my analogue pedalboard and get a Two Notes Captor or Cab M for the FOH stuff....


 

Stupid.