Factory presets - in general not tied to any particular MFR

relic245

I've just received a tonex pedal (many thanks @Bungle1 ; for a great transaction)

A quick reset to factory settings and first impression was ...... what a piece of shit!

But actually it's not.

It's just that many of the presets are astonishingly terrible.  Based on the fact that within 5 minutes I can find some much better ones and install them from the tonex website it makes me think why would a manufacturer ship a piece of kit like that?

From my experience it's true of pretty much every manufacturer (can't think of any exceptions.) It's like the presets are built by non guitarists. I think everyone who's ever owned a helix, or boss multi fx, or any other brand can get it sounding better than it did out of the box in just a couple of minutes. 

So when these are the sounds that people will be using to demo them in a music shop, once again why? 

Yorkie

Agreed. I've got a GT-1 now, and I've had to follow the same process as with every other digital do-it-all I've owned (Zoom 505, Boss Katana, Fender Mustang, Vox Valvetronix, Marshall CODE...): deactivate the noise gate, lower the gain, remove EQ cuts...

I can see where the manufacturers are coming from. They probably want whoever's demoing their gear to do flashy stuff in front of a camera at the press of one, maybe two buttons. 

Sporky

I wonder if it's like the sales mode on tellies - maximum contrast.

I generally reckoned that the most important part of any hi-tech bit of kit is the user interface. If you can't get at the guts to tweak things easily, you can't get the best from it. With a very few exceptions it's been a long time since any of it was incapable of making good sounds. 

Snags

As yet no first-hand experience, but from online demos it would appear that the Fractal Audio presets are actually usable. Otherwise I'm with you, generally speaking they're awful and/or aimed at deaf children coked off their tits.

John_P

Have to agree about the tonex,  the presets it came with are some of the worst sounds I've heard.  Bought some from amalgam and it sounds amazing and I'm super happy with it.  

kennedydream1980

Presets on the Tonex pedal are a minefield especially presets uploaded to ToneNet by users. This is mainly down to how the capture tech works in relation to levels and how that corresponds to the input trim parameter on the pedal itself.

This also relates to 3rd party vendors of capture packs. They really need to advise the customer of where to set the input trim on the pedal, to have the capture sound as intended in relation to the real amp and the settings that were captured.

I was recently able to do a comparison between a Kemper and a Tonex pedal using identical captures on both devices. The amp in question was a Marshall Superbass captured by Amalgam Audio. The capture I used was the Balanced Lead.

To get the equivalent gain levels and response to the Kemper I had to set the input trim on the Tonex to +8.5, which I believe is the new default value on the pedal after recent firmware updates. 

Compare this to Jason Sadites who is another high profile 3rd party vendor of Tonex captures. In a recent video he recommends setting the input trim to between 0 and -3 for his captures.

So this is a big swing in input trim settings for both vendors. The input trim is also a global parameter so it makes switching between patches of different users / vendors problematic. 

Kemper, Headrush and more recently Tonocracy deal with this issue as part of their capture process, so there is no guesswork involved. It’s definitely something IK Multimedia need to address if they can.

digitalscream

I've never found a single usable factory preset on a modeller - they're universally terrible, to the point that the first thing I do is start with a blank patch, bang the SLO model in there (there's always a Soldano), and off we go.

I really don't understand reviewers who judge modellers by stepping through the presets, because it's completely meaningless; all it does is give you an idea of the tastes of the people who built the presets (and it's totally dependent on the gear they were using to listen to it), not the quality and range of the gear itself.

Danny1969

Generally there's too much of everything piled on .. too much gain, too much EQ and too much reverb and delay. This is because quite often the core amp model sound isn't very good compared to a real amp. I do use the presets but only after dialing everything down a fair bit. 

relic245

kennedydream1980 said:

Presets on the Tonex pedal are a minefield especially presets uploaded to ToneNet by users. This is mainly down to how the capture tech works in relation to levels and how that corresponds to the input trim parameter on the pedal itself.

This also relates to 3rd party vendors of capture packs. They really need to advise the customer of where to set the input trim on the pedal, to have the capture sound as intended in relation to the real amp and the settings that were captured.

I was recently able to do a comparison between a Kemper and a Tonex pedal using identical captures on both devices. The amp in question was a Marshall Superbass captured by Amalgam Audio. The capture I used was the Balanced Lead.

To get the equivalent gain levels and response to the Kemper I had to set the input trim on the Tonex to +8.5, which I believe is the new default value on the pedal after recent firmware updates. 

Compare this to Jason Sadites who is another high profile 3rd party vendor of Tonex captures. In a recent video he recommends setting the input trim to between 0 and -3 for his captures.

So this is a big swing in input trim settings for both vendors. The input trim is also a global parameter so it makes switching between patches of different users / vendors problematic. 

Kemper, Headrush and more recently Tonocracy deal with this issue as part of their capture process, so there is no guesswork involved. It’s definitely something IK Multimedia need to address if they can.

That's really good to know thank you.  Do you know if IK Multimedia are aware of the issue?

kennedydream1980

relic245 said:

kennedydream1980 said:

Presets on the Tonex pedal are a minefield especially presets uploaded to ToneNet by users. This is mainly down to how the capture tech works in relation to levels and how that corresponds to the input trim parameter on the pedal itself.

This also relates to 3rd party vendors of capture packs. They really need to advise the customer of where to set the input trim on the pedal, to have the capture sound as intended in relation to the real amp and the settings that were captured.

I was recently able to do a comparison between a Kemper and a Tonex pedal using identical captures on both devices. The amp in question was a Marshall Superbass captured by Amalgam Audio. The capture I used was the Balanced Lead.

To get the equivalent gain levels and response to the Kemper I had to set the input trim on the Tonex to +8.5, which I believe is the new default value on the pedal after recent firmware updates. 

Compare this to Jason Sadites who is another high profile 3rd party vendor of Tonex captures. In a recent video he recommends setting the input trim to between 0 and -3 for his captures.

So this is a big swing in input trim settings for both vendors. The input trim is also a global parameter so it makes switching between patches of different users / vendors problematic. 

Kemper, Headrush and more recently Tonocracy deal with this issue as part of their capture process, so there is no guesswork involved. It’s definitely something IK Multimedia need to address if they can.

That's really good to know thank you.  Do you know if IK Multimedia are aware of the issue?

It would appear it has been pointed out to them on numerous occasions from what I can tell, it’s well documented on various forums. IK don’t seem to acknowledge that it’s a problem.

relic245

kennedydream1980 said:

relic245 said:

kennedydream1980 said:

Presets on the Tonex pedal are a minefield especially presets uploaded to ToneNet by users. This is mainly down to how the capture tech works in relation to levels and how that corresponds to the input trim parameter on the pedal itself.

That's really good to know thank you.  Do you know if IK Multimedia are aware of the issue?

It would appear it has been pointed out to them on numerous occasions from what I can tell, it’s well documented on various forums. IK don’t seem to acknowledge that it’s a problem.

That's a shame but it is a tried and tested way of dealing with problems. Pretend that they don't exist. 

MrTee

As mentioned earlier, I find the (many of the) presets in the Fractal, FM3 in my case, incredible and gig/session ready

Voxman

Arguably the prize for the worst factory presets ever should go to the Zoom G11. It's actually not a bad unit, lots of good gigging features and although wrongly priced and looks a bit like a Fisher Price toy, it's actually capable of some really good tones.

The problem with factory presets is that these are typically the first thing a prospective buyer will hear and if they are bad, it could scare away a lot of potential customers. The thing is that tones are often subjective, and they are made with very specific gear in a studio. So if your gear and how you are using the unit are very different to the patch creator, what you'll hear could be drastically different.

All that being said, for the last two days I've been trying out the Valeton GP200.  I've played quite a few mfx units and I'm quite cynical and critical of how mfx sound, but I have to say that through my Audio Technica ATH  m50x studio monitoring headphones, I think these are honestly the best factory presets I've ever heard. There's inevitably a few weird ones, but these and the bass guitar ones aside, the vast majority sound really, really good. 

The GP200 has its functionality shortfalls, some of which are major, but its sound quality is staggeringly good not just for a unit at this budget price but it punches well above its weight. 

Jay100

My previous Helix LT didn’t have great patches out of the box, but my Neural Quad Cortex is a very different story. 

The patches - to my ears - are really very good and more than usable. Only slight tweaks needed in a few places.

Voxman

Jay100 said:

My previous Helix LT didn’t have great patches out of the box, but my Neural Quad Cortex is a very different story. 

The patches - to my ears - are really very good and more than usable. Only slight tweaks needed in a few places.

Ditto my Pod Go. Even with the new cab engine they still aren't what I'd consider good. 

markslade07

Voxman said:

All that being said, for the last two days I've been trying out the Valeton GP200.  I've played quite a few mfx units and I'm quite cynical and critical of how mfx sound, but I have to say that through my Audio Technica ATH  m50x studio monitoring headphones, I think these are honestly the best factory presets I've ever heard. There's inevitably a few weird ones, but these and the bass guitar ones aside, the vast majority sound really, really good. 

I just got the GP200 too and would concur that many of the factory presets are actually rather good. Certainly much better than many of the Helix LT ones I had previously

normula1

I don't think I've ever used a stock preset in my helix for longer than 5 mins apart from one if the really whacky ones which was fun for a while. Haven't used it since though.
I picked up a Spark Go in their black Friday sale as an XMas present from my Mrs. and my instant reaction on first play through the presets was "well they sound sh§t, glad I didn't pay full whack. I genuinely think the stock presets on a PocketPod are better.
Crappy tones or not, I can't wait for summer to annoy the neighbours in the garden with it though

richman6100

Agreed. The factory presets on my BOSS MD-500 were rather crap. Some were so bad, in fact, that I can completely understand why some people thought the pedal was overrated and returned it. Mostly, the presets were over the top and artificial sounding. I've modified all of the original ones and created several new presets from scratch. I'm amazed that some of the standard presets made it onto the pedal at its release given that they were so bad and can easily be improved.

PolarityMan

I don't get why they are so terrible either, I suppose perhaps they are optimised for a weird environment like bedroom player going into the front of a spider iv or something...VSTs are much better with usable presents imo but they do tend to be a smaller amp selection.

Sporky

The Yamaha UD Stomp had some good presets. I never figured out how some of them worked, even with all the parameters right there. 

ICBM

I've almost always done it by starting with a patch with all the effects turned off, then adding either an EQ or an amp preamp setting (if it has those) with the gain right down, and getting a decent basic clean tone. Then add a bit of dirt - again starting with the gain right down - then reverb, until you've got something that sounds roughly like a normal guitar amp in a room sound. *Then* add other effects, usually one at a time.

Maybe this is a very old-fashioned approach - the idea that you need to start with something that sounds like a guitar plugged into an amp and then add effects - and maybe it doesn't explore what the unit is really capable of, but that way I've been able to get useful tones out of even the most unlikely devices, like the Zoom 9002 and 505. (A good illustration of how wildly over the top the factory sounds on these are is that I had the distortion gain set to *1* out of a possible 30!)