Something’s come up

Cranky

I’m sure there’s a name for this already, but it’s been interesting exploring my nominal options based on what I’ve learned to far.

My daughter has a great ear and it’s showing in her first few months of piano lessons.  She’s worked out a melody of sorts (and accompanying left-hand chords) that invokes a scale of: C - D - Eb - F# - G - Ab - Bb - C

My instinct is to put it under the “harmonic minor” category because of that 3-semitone jump from Eb to F#.  But then it’s got the next three notes all crammed together. 

All that Zelda music we’ve been listening to, I think.  It’s lovely.  But does it have a name?  Is it a mode of G harmonic minor, like “C minor lydian dominant”?

Paul_C

https://www.scales-chords.com/fscale_res_en.php?rn1=C&rn2=D&rn3=Eb&rn4=F%23&rn5=G&rn6=Ab&rn7=Bb&rn8=&rn9=&c1=&t1=&c2=&t2=&c3=&t3=&normal=1&greek=1&greekalt=1&other=1&etnic=1&nonenharmonic=1 

Cranky

Ah, ok, so it’s a minor Neapolitan scale.  Thank you!

Now I gotta find some examples of songs using it.  I mean, beside the one my kiddo is writing in her head.

viz

Well, the 4th mode of it. Aka Aeolian #4. Very nice

Cranky

viz said:

Well, the 4th mode of it. Aka Aeolian #4. Very nice

I was hoping you’d check in on this.

So the “parent scale” here is based on the note prior to the flat 2?

And is there a term for that run of notes a semitone away - the maj7–1–b2?

Vintage65

It's C Hungarian Gypsy. Also C Sanmukhapriya, C Damien Emmanuel, and similar to Eb Houzam, Gb Neapolitan Minor Mode, G Neapolitan Minor, Bb Mixolydian Augmented & Ab Citrambari if my memory serves me correctly.

Harmonize with Cm, Gm, D(b5), F#sus2(b5), Ab, Eb, Bbaug.

Cranky

Vintage65 said:

It's C Hungarian Gypsy. Also C Sanmukhapriya, C Damien Emmanuel, and similar to Eb Houzam, Gb Neapolitan Minor Mode, G Neapolitan Minor, Bb Mixolydian Augmented & Ab Citrambari if my memory serves me correctly.

Harmonize with Cm, Gm, D(b5), F#sus2(b5), Ab, Eb, Bbaug.

I am going to watch her play again and see what chords she’s playing with her left hand.  

It’s the beauty of being 10, a beginner who’s curious with a good ear.  She doesn’t care what anything is called, only that it sounds good.

viz

Cranky said:

viz said:

Well, the 4th mode of it. Aka Aeolian #4. Very nice

I was hoping you’d check in on this.

So the “parent scale” here is based on the note prior to the flat 2?

And is there a term for that run of notes a semitone away - the maj7–1–b2?

Ja - Neapolitan Minor is phrygian at the bottom, harmonic minor at the top. 

Not that I know of - it’s just a maj7, I, b2, like you say!

With a lot of these exotic scales, it’s quite often the case that the 4th mode actually serves as a more natural tonic, and the supposed “parent” scale is better as a dominant. Same with the hungarian minor and the persian major (imo anyway). 

Cranky

Cranky said:

Vintage65 said:

It's C Hungarian Gypsy. Also C Sanmukhapriya, C Damien Emmanuel, and similar to Eb Houzam, Gb Neapolitan Minor Mode, G Neapolitan Minor, Bb Mixolydian Augmented & Ab Citrambari if my memory serves me correctly.

Harmonize with Cm, Gm, D(b5), F#sus2(b5), Ab, Eb, Bbaug.

I am going to watch her play again and see what chords she’s playing with her left hand.  

It’s the beauty of being 10, a beginner who’s curious with a good ear.  She doesn’t care what anything is called, only that it sounds good.

A minor discovery (no pun intended).  Abmaj7 harmonizes nicely.  A bit moodier than a straight up Ab.

And Eb minor harmonizes as well.  As does F#aug (and Daug, by virtue of being inversions of Bbaug).  Not that any of this is news to you fellas; it just helps me immensely to put things down in the form of banter.

viz

Cranky said:

Now I gotta find some examples of songs using it.  I mean, beside the one my kiddo is writing in her head.

Crushing Day by Satriani alludes to it. Any minor song with a major II chord brings in the aug4 note. But it also brings a raised 6th (like Dorian), which actually makes Crushing Day in the 4th mode of harmonic minor. But they're very similar. I mean you can play your daughter's scale over the 1 chord of Crushing Day, you just need to raise that 6th over the II chord. 

Ddigger

Paul_C said:

https://www.scales-chords.com/fscale_res_en.php?rn1=C&rn2=D&rn3=Eb&rn4=F%23&rn5=G&rn6=Ab&rn7=Bb&rn8=&rn9=&c1=&t1=&c2=&t2=&c3=&t3=&normal=1&greek=1&greekalt=1&other=1&etnic=1&nonenharmonic=1 

Thanks for posting.  I will take a look at this tomorrow.