Coil split 490’s - any good?

suspiciousminds

Some time back i swapped out the pickups from my Gibson M2 melodymaker for a pair of 490r and 490t.
They are “quick connect” as the m2 originally had quick connect.
Could they both be coil split as they have 5 wires and if so how do they sound?

Funkfingers

They will sound thinner and no longer reject hum and RF interference. Whether this sound is useful to you is entirely subjective.

What might be nice is partial coil split. This involves the use of either a capacitor or a resistor between the split mode switch and ground. (I need to see photographs of the Quick Connect PCB to deduce where the resistors could be added non-destructively.)

IMO, what would be great fun with the standard controls is Seymour Duncan P-Rails pickups wired so that splitting them engages P90 mode.

guitars4you

Agree with @Funkfingers that to get the best 'single coil' voice from hum buckers is to go down the 'partial' coil split route - Quick google tour will show you one or two options - You'll need a push/pull switch on either the vol or tone pot - Some might fit a mini 2 way toggle, but unless it is already there I would not drill/fit an additional switch

Google PRS DGT and it will give you an idea of partial coil tap options/wiring - If you just have the one tone pot then you can wire both pick-ups to this push/pull switch option - something like 1.1 K resistor on the neck pick up and 2.2K for the bridge as you can wire one pick-up on one side of the 6 'tags' and the other pick up on the other side 

Partial tap gives a far better single coil tone than just split the 'old way'

Cols

I’ve had good results by adding a series/parallel switch to humbuckers; this reduces the output and opens up the sound without losing the hum cancellation.

Philly_Q

Cols said:

I’ve had good results by adding a series/parallel switch to humbuckers; this reduces the output and opens up the sound without losing the hum cancellation.

I find series/parallel also responds in an interesting way if you play around with the volume and tone controls.  Sorry I can't describe it better...  With a split humbucker, all that happens when you turn down the volume and/or tone is that the sound gets thinner and weedier, but with parallel wiring it's like the frequency curve shifts.  Or something. 

suspiciousminds

Thanks for the replies chaps.
Lots of food for thought.
I’ve got a short shaft push pull pot which will fit in the cavity nicely, the p-rails option sounds interesting.

PeterHall

Not exactly the same but my SG has coil split 57 PAFs. Waste of time. I think their (57s)output is about 7.5 k and splitting makes them very weak. I never use the splits.

Funkfingers

An SG is probably the only application where I have liked the 490T/490R pair. Something about the skinny mahogany body, I suspect. 

The same pair in a mostly maple Jazz guitar tends to suck.

suspiciousminds said:

I’ve got a short shaft push pull pot which will fit in the cavity nicely, the p-rails option sounds interesting.

The simplest approach is to split both P-Rails simultaneously. IIRC, this involves using the green conductors as hot. Red/white form the series and split connection. Black and bare are permanently grounded.

My preference is for the hotter SHPR-2 in the bridge/Treble position.

The Triple Shot mounting surrounds offer four possible sounds per pickup. As time passes, I use two of those so infrequently that they might as well not be there. Parallel coils mode is only occasionally useful. The Rail coil is shite.
 
YMMV 

Cols

Philly_Q said:

Cols said:

I’ve had good results by adding a series/parallel switch to humbuckers; this reduces the output and opens up the sound without losing the hum cancellation.

I find series/parallel also responds in an interesting way if you play around with the volume and tone controls.  Sorry I can't describe it better...  With a split humbucker, all that happens when you turn down the volume and/or tone is that the sound gets thinner and weedier, but with parallel wiring it's like the frequency curve shifts.  Or something. 

I’ll have to give that a go, thanks.

timmypix

Another vote for partial splits - it makes splitting a weaker pickup suddenly much more useable as a split-coil sound, though of course never as good as a true single. I also tend to prefer combining splits in the middle position than using splits on their own.

Philly_Q

Cols said:

Philly_Q said:

Cols said:

I’ve had good results by adding a series/parallel switch to humbuckers; this reduces the output and opens up the sound without losing the hum cancellation.

I find series/parallel also responds in an interesting way if you play around with the volume and tone controls.  Sorry I can't describe it better...  With a split humbucker, all that happens when you turn down the volume and/or tone is that the sound gets thinner and weedier, but with parallel wiring it's like the frequency curve shifts.  Or something. 

I’ll have to give that a go, thanks.

It might depend on the particular pickup, but I have a Gibson SG-X which originally had a 500T and a coil split switch.  I changed that to series/parallel and tried a succession of pickups - Gibson 490T, DiMarzio FRED and BKP Riff Raff if I remember right.  I'm really struggling to describe what happens, but give it a go.

suspiciousminds

So, the setup is 2 humbuckers, 1 Vol pot and 1 tone pot.
If both pots were push pull would it be possible to use the tone pot for phase reversal and the volume pot for series/parallel?

Philly_Q

suspiciousminds said:

So, the setup is 2 humbuckers, 1 Vol pot and 1 tone pot.
If both pots were push pull would it be possible to use the tone pot for phase reversal and the volume pot for series/parallel?

You can't do two series/parallel switches on a single push-pull, too many poles needed.

Edit:  At least I don't think you can... maybe someone smarter than me can explain what's going on here:

https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/2H_3G_1VppSP_1TppPH.jpg

Cols

Philly_Q said:

suspiciousminds said:

So, the setup is 2 humbuckers, 1 Vol pot and 1 tone pot.
If both pots were push pull would it be possible to use the tone pot for phase reversal and the volume pot for series/parallel?

You can't do two series/parallel switches on a single push-pull, too many poles needed.

Edit:  At least I don't think you can... maybe someone smarter than me can explain what's going on here:

https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/2H_3G_1VppSP_1TppPH.jpg

More coffee needed.... but I believe in this case the volume pot push-pull is switching the two humbuckers together between series and parallel connection (parallel is standard), rather than switching the individual pickup coils between series and parallel.

p90fool

Depending on how you use the guitar you could do what I did and use a highish value treble pass cap on the volume pot. 

330pf gave me a brighter tone at lower volume (much like a coil split does) but full fatness at full volume with my pair of 490s. Just an idea if it suits your playing style. 

suspiciousminds

Philly_Q said:

suspiciousminds said:

So, the setup is 2 humbuckers, 1 Vol pot and 1 tone pot.
If both pots were push pull would it be possible to use the tone pot for phase reversal and the volume pot for series/parallel?

You can't do two series/parallel switches on a single push-pull, too many poles needed.

Edit:  At least I don't think you can... maybe someone smarter than me can explain what's going on here:

https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/2H_3G_1VppSP_1TppPH.jpg

I think that i am going to go with that, it adds phase reversal which i do like and the series/parallel is a mod i’ve never tried before so sounds interesting.
I’m guessing the two red and white wires taped together cant be utilised for anything?

Philly_Q

Cols said:

Philly_Q said:

suspiciousminds said:

So, the setup is 2 humbuckers, 1 Vol pot and 1 tone pot.
If both pots were push pull would it be possible to use the tone pot for phase reversal and the volume pot for series/parallel?

You can't do two series/parallel switches on a single push-pull, too many poles needed.

Edit:  At least I don't think you can... maybe someone smarter than me can explain what's going on here:

https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/2H_3G_1VppSP_1TppPH.jpg

More coffee needed.... but I believe in this case the volume pot push-pull is switching the two humbuckers together between series and parallel connection (parallel is standard), rather than switching the individual pickup coils between series and parallel.

Apologies for the double diagram folks, when I posted it it was meant to be a URL, plus a picture of the wiring, but for some reason it opens the URL link....

But @Cols, I see what you're saying, each individual pickup stays in normal (series) wiring, this is putting the two pickups together in series or parallel with each other.  I can't imagine two HBs in series being a particularly desirable sound - although series, out of phase might be interesting.

For series/parallel wiring of each pickup, I think you would need two separate push-pulls or mini-switches, as I thought originally.

Philly_Q

suspiciousminds said:

I’m guessing the two red and white wires taped together cant be utilised for anything?

Generally you could use those for coil splitting, but not sure if you could make that work in this particular context with two push-pulls, again I think you'd need extra switches (or at least one, because you can split two HBs with a single push-pull).

Funkfingers

Philly_Q said:

I can't imagine two HBs in series being a particularly desirable sound - although series, out of phase might be interesting.

Unless they are low wind or especially bright, two humbuckers connected in series leans towards Mud City. Firebird pickups or Gibson/Epiphone USA mini humbuckers might be okay - assuming that they have suitable output cable.

Series and out-of-phase will produce a honky tone. This might suit the occasional foray into scratchy Brian May Red Special sounds.

Cols

Philly_Q said:.

But @Cols, I see what you're saying, each individual pickup stays in normal (series) wiring, this is putting the two pickups together in series or parallel with each other.  I can't imagine two HBs in series being a particularly desirable sound - although series, out of phase might be interesting.

It’s very high output and fat.  Good if you want a trip to Sludge City.  Series/out of phase is a reasonably useful honky tone.

For series/parallel wiring of each pickup, I think you would need two separate push-pulls or mini-switches, as I thought originally.

Yep; I can’t see a way to do this (or coil splits) for both with a single push-pull.

suspiciousminds said:

I’m guessing the two red and white wires taped together cant be utilised for anything?

These are the north end of one coil and south end of the other in the humbucker.  Taped together, one coil feeds into the other - series.

If you separated these, you could do a coil split or series/parallel switching.

You could also put the humbucker out of phase with itself, but I really wouldn’t recommend this.  The result would be a very weak and thin tone.

suspiciousminds

Thanks for all the help guys, i’m going to do the wiring suggested by @Philly_Q , time to fire up the soldering iron!