Noiseless strat pickups: What's good these days?

LionAquaLooper

Philly_Q said:

^^  I had a Strat Plus Deluxe 35 years ago and I remember that Lace Sensor leaflet being included.  I loved the sound at the time - nothing like vintage single-coils, but it sounded great.  Especially with blue at the bridge and silver at the neck.  I later changed it to red bridge, blue neck, which was the updated spec, but I didn't like that so much.

Is that the model with a metal roller nut and TBX Tone circuit?

CasperCaster

I get that none of the noiseless Strat pickups will ever sound exactly like a real single coil, but that doesn't mean that they don't produce useful tones. Dimarzio Areas and Virtual Vintages, Kinmans and  Mojotones are probably the best noiseless designs of the moment (Mojotones are side by side rail humbuckers' with fake pole pieces so that they look 'right'). The Illitch hum cancelling coil system is another option, which Suhr have used.

Philly_Q

LionAquaLooper said:

Philly_Q said:

^^  I had a Strat Plus Deluxe 35 years ago and I remember that Lace Sensor leaflet being included.  I loved the sound at the time - nothing like vintage single-coils, but it sounded great.  Especially with blue at the bridge and silver at the neck.  I later changed it to red bridge, blue neck, which was the updated spec, but I didn't like that so much.

Is that the model with a metal roller nut and TBX Tone circuit?

It was.  There was the Strat Plus with three gold lace sensors, and the Strat Plus Deluxe which originally had blue, silver, silver lace sensors, then later changed to red, silver, blue.  There were probably some other subtle differences between the Plus and Plus Deluxe, but I don't remember exactly what they were.  And the specs changed quite a lot over the years anyway - Sperzel then Schaller locking tuners, two different Wilkinson nuts then the LSR nut, etc.

octatonic

Just embrace the noise.

I've never heard a noiseless strat pickup I like more than a great single coil.
I like Lollar Vintage Blonde or Tweed, and Suhr ML's.

Too much noise means I have too much gain.

Lewy

fretmeister said:

Lewy said:

You’re using his strings, now take the next step and use his pickups…. SD YJM Fury set

I had Dimarzio HS3 many years ago and they were great for high gain I didn’t like them for cleans . 

Are the SD version better?

They’re certainly fuller sounding than the HS3s by all accounts, I’ve never tried those. The Furys just sound like good 60s-ish pickups to me (I’m no pickup aficionado though…I kind of think that once you’re in the ball park, that’s what EQ is for )

robinbowes

ICBM said:

...because DiMarzio did a bit of nasty corporate legal bullshit to Kinman over the design...

Got any links to details about that?

R.

OilCityPickups

Philly_Q said:

^^  I had a Strat Plus Deluxe 35 years ago and I remember that Lace Sensor leaflet being included.  I loved the sound at the time - nothing like vintage single-coils, but it sounded great.  Especially with blue at the bridge and silver at the neck.  I later changed it to red bridge, blue neck, which was the updated spec, but I didn't like that so much.

They could sound really fabulous, I like them  ... but as you say, nothing like a vintage single coil. 

ToneControl

surely a noiseless single coil must sound exactly the same as a pickup made in the 50s, or else it is completely useless, and it is impossible to improve on the first pickups Leo had made

;-)

OilCityPickups

ToneControl said:

surely a noiseless single coil must sound exactly the same as a pickup made in the 50s, or else it is completely useless, and it is impossible to improve on the first pickups Leo had made

;-)

Personally I wish folks would get over this obsession of sounding exactly like the 50s, I could get on and build more exciting pickups then :-)
For example ... take the Heavy Formvar wire that sounds so good in traditional Strat pickups, and use it to make a triple coil, hum cancelling Jazzmaster replacement ... or a 7 string P90 ... or any bloody thing interesting :-)

ICBM

robinbowes said:

Got any links to details about that?

Originally posted by Chris Kinman

The following story is factual and can be easily proved therefore I am not at risk of being sued for libel or slander.

Like many of you I have heard on the Internet Discussion groups and by word of mouth about DiMarzio Corporation suing Seymour Duncan over the double creme humbucker and that they prevented Duncan from making them by what many consider to be unethical means. Judging from peoples sentiments expressed on Internet discussion sites, DiMarzio Corporation's actions did not endear them to many guitar players in America at all. Many of you have also heard that DiMarzio Corporation, in what can only be described as an act of desperation to keep Kinman out of America, threatened to sue me on a Patent Infringement accusation in New York City. I just wanted to be left alone to get on with my passion of making nice pickups but because of this threat by DiMarzio Corporation I had to severely restricted Dealerships in the U.S.A. which hurt my business a lot; this is why Kinman pickups have been difficult to get in America up to date. You probably don't understand how DiMarzio Corporation can get away with this when Kinman was granted a 1996 U.S. Patent and my products are manufactured in accordance with what is disclosed in that Patent.

Three different Patent Attorneys in two countries gave me advise that my pickups do not infringe any of DiMarzios Patents. But DiMarzio Corporation have an agenda to eliminate Kinman as competition in America and deprive American guitar players of an alternate competitive brand in the noiseless single coil arena. I tried to negotiate with DiMarzio Corporation and just when I thought we were getting close to a settlement they came back with even more ridiculous demands. They even wanted me to agree never to sue them on any of my current Patents or any future Patent I might get in the USA. That really says something don't you think? Like- Kinman must have something DiMarzio are scared of. As you can see they made it impossible to reach any kind of solution as there is no way known I would agree to ludicrous demands like that. Reason did not prevail and they went ahead with with their threat of a law suit in New York City. It might have something to do with the fact that to defend myself in New York would have cost me $250,000 in Attorney fees and they knew I wasn't able to raise that kind of cash so the case would be a pushover for them. (My US Attorney quoted me $50,000 just for pre-court preparation) I would have defended myself by correspondence and probably won the case but New York State law does not allow self defense by businesses. New York State law says that I would have to hire a New York registered attorney costing about $350/hour. Clearly that was not an option I could consider. Seems like New York is not the place to defend yourself if you are a small operator.

Because I couldn't raise the cash to defend myself DiMarzio Corporation applied to the court for a 'default judgement' which basically means I got found guilty in my absence. That default judgement, which seeks to deprive American Guitar players of Kinman products, cost DiMarzio Corporation a pittance because there was no court case as such, just some paperwork was all they had to do.

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

robinbowes said:

Got any links to details about that?

Originally posted by Chris Kinman

The following story is factual and can be easily proved therefore I am not at risk of being sued for libel or slander.

Like many of you I have heard on the Internet Discussion groups and by word of mouth about DiMarzio Corporation suing Seymour Duncan over the double creme humbucker and that they prevented Duncan from making them by what many consider to be unethical means. Judging from peoples sentiments expressed on Internet discussion sites, DiMarzio Corporation's actions did not endear them to many guitar players in America at all. Many of you have also heard that DiMarzio Corporation, in what can only be described as an act of desperation to keep Kinman out of America, threatened to sue me on a Patent Infringement accusation in New York City. I just wanted to be left alone to get on with my passion of making nice pickups but because of this threat by DiMarzio Corporation I had to severely restricted Dealerships in the U.S.A. which hurt my business a lot; this is why Kinman pickups have been difficult to get in America up to date. You probably don't understand how DiMarzio Corporation can get away with this when Kinman was granted a 1996 U.S. Patent and my products are manufactured in accordance with what is disclosed in that Patent.

Three different Patent Attorneys in two countries gave me advise that my pickups do not infringe any of DiMarzios Patents. But DiMarzio Corporation have an agenda to eliminate Kinman as competition in America and deprive American guitar players of an alternate competitive brand in the noiseless single coil arena. I tried to negotiate with DiMarzio Corporation and just when I thought we were getting close to a settlement they came back with even more ridiculous demands. They even wanted me to agree never to sue them on any of my current Patents or any future Patent I might get in the USA. That really says something don't you think? Like- Kinman must have something DiMarzio are scared of. As you can see they made it impossible to reach any kind of solution as there is no way known I would agree to ludicrous demands like that. Reason did not prevail and they went ahead with with their threat of a law suit in New York City. It might have something to do with the fact that to defend myself in New York would have cost me $250,000 in Attorney fees and they knew I wasn't able to raise that kind of cash so the case would be a pushover for them. (My US Attorney quoted me $50,000 just for pre-court preparation) I would have defended myself by correspondence and probably won the case but New York State law does not allow self defense by businesses. New York State law says that I would have to hire a New York registered attorney costing about $350/hour. Clearly that was not an option I could consider. Seems like New York is not the place to defend yourself if you are a small operator.

Because I couldn't raise the cash to defend myself DiMarzio Corporation applied to the court for a 'default judgement' which basically means I got found guilty in my absence. That default judgement, which seeks to deprive American Guitar players of Kinman products, cost DiMarzio Corporation a pittance because there was no court case as such, just some paperwork was all they had to do.

Both Larry And Seymore ... or at least their corporate entities have been trying to stamp out all competition in lots of different areas of pickup development in the US for decades. Unfortunately this is how the corporate game is played in the Land of the Free. 
 

tekbow

Seziertisch said:

OilCityPickups said:

Not cheap ... about the price of a good set of humbuckers ... but very good indeed. 

https://youtu.be/gpfYW7ItRCs?si=nW0W6QUmqoBqeDKg

I remember reading somewhere that it is a clone of the gate in the Marshall Kerry King amp

It kind of is, but the gate in the KK JCM800 is, I believe, straight implentation of an example application from THAT Corp, who made the chips used in the gate.

And the Zuul is that circuit in a pedal.

Which is why you can buy a Guptech Guul which eventually morphed into the Suun Gate at considerably less cash.

And the Zuul+ is actually just the result of all the "clones" adding the through so you didn't have to put a splitter in front.

I don't think THAT Corp make the chip in question anymore, they make a newer version, with the same application example provided, which is now in the the likes of the Zuul+ etc

ToneControl

OilCityPickups said:

ToneControl said:

surely a noiseless single coil must sound exactly the same as a pickup made in the 50s, or else it is completely useless, and it is impossible to improve on the first pickups Leo had made

;-)

Personally I wish folks would get over this obsession of sounding exactly like the 50s, I could get on and build more exciting pickups then :-)
For example ... take the Heavy Formvar wire that sounds so good in traditional Strat pickups, and use it to make a triple coil, hum cancelling Jazzmaster replacement ... or a 7 string P90 ... or any bloody thing interesting :-)

It's the same with everything about guitars; some people just want to believe that no one has invented any improvements in guitar design since the 1950s.
I'm glad they aren't so daft about cars, hifi, TVs and calculation engines ;-)

OilCityPickups

ToneControl said:

OilCityPickups said:

ToneControl said:

surely a noiseless single coil must sound exactly the same as a pickup made in the 50s, or else it is completely useless, and it is impossible to improve on the first pickups Leo had made

;-)

Personally I wish folks would get over this obsession of sounding exactly like the 50s, I could get on and build more exciting pickups then :-)
For example ... take the Heavy Formvar wire that sounds so good in traditional Strat pickups, and use it to make a triple coil, hum cancelling Jazzmaster replacement ... or a 7 string P90 ... or any bloody thing interesting :-)

It's the same with everything about guitars; some people just want to believe that no one has invented any improvements in guitar design since the 1950s.
I'm glad they aren't so daft about cars, hifi, TVs and calculation engines ;-)

I could just do with a nice steam powered, mechanical calculation engine ... to go with my camera that has a tiny imp inside who paints lifelike pictures very quickly. 

normula1

I've been down this rabbit hole so many times, I've hot DiMarzio virtual vintages (54 something or other) with a blues in the bridge which sound great, 2006 Kinman Woodstocks in a HSS with a BK Mule which are probably my favourites, 2017 Woodstocks which are much brighter, some ancient OBL (Bill Lawrence) 450R rails which are quite smooth and are the least Strat sounding when you listen closely but have a "thing" I still like in a particular guitar. I've had the SCNs which were fine but replaced by the 2006 Kinmans.
They're all reminiscent of a Strat, but if you A/B them with a genuine single coil they all fall short, but they're close enough for me.

LionAquaLooper

I've found it's just best not to A/B these against the real things in the first place  

p90fool

I'm not particularly bothered about having authentic 50s tone, but I do like the touch responsiveness you get from vintage wind single coil pickups. 

As someone who's gigged single coils almost exclusively in every type of death-trap venue known to man for over four decades with zero problems I'd start at the other end and ask what is producing the noise, rather than what is picking it up. 

Before we all sit around scratching our heads and consulting electricians, it's gain. Way too much of it, teenage levels of it in fact. There's a simple rule; if you don't have much volume you need lots of gain, if you have plenty of volume (like at a gig) you don't need much gain. 

Ride your volume or use your boost pedal only when you need it and nobody will ever hear 50Hz hum from your guitar, all those buzzes, crackles and pops from dive pubs and crumbly hotels are about shielding, nothing to do with humbucking. 

ToneControl

p90fool said:

I'm not particularly bothered about having authentic 50s tone, but I do like the touch responsiveness you get from vintage wind single coil pickups. 

As someone who's gigged single coils almost exclusively in every type of death-trap venue known to man for over four decades with zero problems I'd start at the other end and ask what is producing the noise, rather than what is picking it up. 

Before we all sit around scratching our heads and consulting electricians, it's gain. Way too much of it, teenage levels of it in fact. There's a simple rule; if you don't have much volume you need lots of gain, if you have plenty of volume (like at a gig) you don't need much gain. 

Ride your volume or use your boost pedal only when you need it and nobody will ever hear 50Hz hum from your guitar, all those buzzes, crackles and pops from dive pubs and crumbly hotels are about shielding, nothing to do with humbucking. 

best touch responsiveness I have experienced or heard is with the DG20 EMG set (active EQ)
Listen to the Gilmour Pulse tour, etc, and the post-Waters PF albums

ICBM

p90fool said:

As someone who's gigged single coils almost exclusively in every type of death-trap venue known to man for over four decades with zero problems I'd start at the other end and ask what is producing the noise, rather than what is picking it up. 

Before we all sit around scratching our heads and consulting electricians, it's gain. Way too much of it, teenage levels of it in fact. There's a simple rule; if you don't have much volume you need lots of gain, if you have plenty of volume (like at a gig) you don't need much gain. 

Ride your volume or use your boost pedal only when you need it and nobody will ever hear 50Hz hum from your guitar, all those buzzes, crackles and pops from dive pubs and crumbly hotels are about shielding, nothing to do with humbucking. 

This is true up to a point - it’s why players like Leslie West could use a Les Paul Junior at stadium volume and not have much problem with hum, because most of the distortion was coming from the power stage and speakers being absolutely hammered, not preamp gain - but I’ve also experienced two venues where even a completely clean sound was unusable without holding the guitar (or bass in one of them) at a precise and awkward angle to the stage. It’s not 50Hz hum that’s the issue, it’s buzz from switch-mode power supplies - which is still electromagnetic, and hence not stopped by shielding. That was never a problem before the 90s because that type of power supply was not in common use.

rlw

I actually like Fenders Vintage Noiseless pickups .