Standard scale guitar tuned to B standard

Seziertisch

I see Stringjoy have an Ariel Posen signature set (17 to 64) intended to be used for low-tuned “standard” scale guitars.

Anyone ever try this (or them)?

crunchman

Interesting idea, but you need to commit to it.  You would have to widen the nut slots to fit those strings.  You would need a new nut if you want to go back.

fretmeister

I've done it. Nearly - I had it in Open B. I enjoyed it a lot.

The nut slots only needed a little widening so I didn't need a new nut when I went back.

prlgmnr

I took some of these round to a guy's house while testing a prospective purchase the other day, he was very patient to wait while I filed out the nut slots and got these put on, but in the end he wouldn't shift on his asking price so I came home empty handed.

Sporky

I had my RG570 strung B-B on 13s. It was gert lush. 

jasonbone75

That Posen set is daft and completely unnecessary. Check out the total tension on 25.5 scale at B standard. I have put in a set of D'Addario EXL148 underneath to compare. The top set of the three is what I have on one of my 25.5 scale Majestys C standard and that feels roughly like a standard tuning set of 9.5s and plays fantastic.

If you are on Gibson scale well I'll bow out gracefully...

I would save the money for now and just get a set of 12s or 13s from your usual brand and try them. No need to go as heavy as the Posen set - it will feel like a scaffold board and need about 3 turns on the truss rod.

PLOP

I tune my tele to drop A - AEADGB and it works fine. Depending on the bridge of your guitar, you can get away fine with a set of baritone strings (13-60 maybe? D’addario ones). If it’s a TOM bridge I think the baritones are too tight, but string through is better. I personally use a custom set of singles from strings direct, can’t remember the exact numbers now but it’s 12 on the high B, 56 on the low A and a wound third. I the five higher strings are “normal” feeling but I do prefer the slacker low A. I could push it to 60 to get a more uniform tension if I wanted. 

I’ve previously set a les Paul to B standard with baritone strings and it was ok, but they were pretty tight so I would assume that 17s are practically unplayable. I’ve not tuned a 24.75” that low since getting a 25.5” scale. 

It can be done though - bands like Yob tune to A standard on 24.75” scale, and Thou tune to drop E and G on Gibsons too. 

Funkfingers

jasonbone75 said:

a scaffold board

Thank you for using the correct term. 

People who say pole and/or plank should serve as labourer in a scaffolding gang for a week without pay, tea or cigs. That'll learn 'em.

ICBM

It’s very simple - 13s are correct, because the B string is a 13 in a standard set of 10s. The F# (was G, but close enough), D and A strings are the same, moved across one string position, and you just need an appropriate low B.

I‘ve done it on a couple of Teles using a double-ball-end bass string with the small ball end, which fits in the ferrule. I used a 65-gauge, which was also the largest that would fit in the tuner post.

You could probably get away with 11s because the B in a set of 9s is an 11, but in fact it’s a bit too light and should really be a 12 - I think something like 11, 15, 22W, 34W, 40W (roughly the bottom 5 strings in a set of 8s) and about a 52 or 54 low B would still work.

You do need to widen the nut grooves, but if done correctly with smoothly rounded bottoms (I know… ) then you can re-fit normal string gauges with no issues. I returned mine to standard and it wasn’t obvious that anything was different.

Seziertisch

I have a 30” baritone tuned to B standard and use the light D’Addario baritone set (13, 18, 26w, 36, 46, 62) and it is quite guitar-y.

There is a tightness and a tautness to it which an E standard guitar doesn’t have, without it being too bass-like.  I imagine using the same strings on a 25.5” scale would give a lot looser feel.

jasonbone75

Not sure how that feels guitar-y! That 13 set at 25.5 would feel just fine and as ICBM pointed out basically a shoe-in without any setup tweaks beyond nut slots.

EDIT: the "DIFF FACT" is a comparison with musicman 25.5" factory setup 10-46 i.e. here 1.92lbs more total tension than 10-46 at E standard

ToneControl

Seziertisch said:

I have a 30” baritone tuned to B standard and use the light D’Addario baritone set (13, 18, 26w, 36, 46, 62) and it is quite guitar-y.

There is a tightness and a tautness to it which an E standard guitar doesn’t have, without it being too bass-like.  I imagine using the same strings on a 25.5” scale would give a lot looser feel.

I keep telling people this

For lower tunings, longer scales feel and sound more like a guitar than just sticking very thick strings on a normal scale length

ToneControl

jasonbone75 said:

Not sure how that feels guitar-y! That 13 set at 25.5 would feel just fine and as ICBM pointed out basically a shoe-in without any setup tweaks beyond nut slots.

EDIT: the "DIFF FACT" is a comparison with musicman 25.5" factory setup 10-46 i.e. here 1.92lbs more total tension than 10-46 at E standard

You'd have to try it, the bends and sounds are more natural, I know because I own 30", 27" and normal scale, and shorter scale guitars.

I recommend D-D on 27 inch scales, B-B on 30 inch

ToneControl

By all means try 13s on a normal scale, but if it doesn't feel similar, bear in mind that other options exist

CHRISB50

jasonbone75 said:

That Posen set is daft and completely unnecessary. Check out the total tension on 25.5 scale at B standard. I have put in a set of D'Addario EXL148 underneath to compare. The top set of the three is what I have on one of my 25.5 scale Majestys C standard and that feels roughly like a standard tuning set of 9.5s and plays fantastic.

If you are on Gibson scale well I'll bow out gracefully...

I would save the money for now and just get a set of 12s or 13s from your usual brand and try them. No need to go as heavy as the Posen set - it will feel like a scaffold board and need about 3 turns on the truss rod.

Do you actually have your own spreadsheet that can compare strings?

jasonbone75

I have had a few 27" guitars at different tunings. Just providing real numbers for the OP to compare. From the first post we had no idea that they already have a 30" scale.

For me a 7 string is a far more useful option for B and lower when playing lead and rhythm parts - especially when changing guitars between songs. The muscle memory for stretches, multi string arpeggios and faster passages in my case is based on 25.5" with 27" being an OK compromise but jumping to 30" not worth it for the adjustment and concentration and in a mix nobody listening would notice the difference with high gain.

I would consider 30" if I had a project or set tuned down that low but for the odd song and riff it isn't worth it.

jasonbone75

CHRISB50 said:

jasonbone75 said:

That Posen set is daft and completely unnecessary. Check out the total tension on 25.5 scale at B standard. I have put in a set of D'Addario EXL148 underneath to compare. The top set of the three is what I have on one of my 25.5 scale Majestys C standard and that feels roughly like a standard tuning set of 9.5s and plays fantastic.

If you are on Gibson scale well I'll bow out gracefully...

I would save the money for now and just get a set of 12s or 13s from your usual brand and try them. No need to go as heavy as the Posen set - it will feel like a scaffold board and need about 3 turns on the truss rod.

Do you actually have your own spreadsheet that can compare strings?

I do. You and anyone are welcome to save a copy: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18JC7vvjPNgdSQmZpb0q3Oovpr1LVGqPx/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102991997688816848157&rtpof=true&sd=true

It uses D'Addario specs for the calculations because most manufacturers don't publish unit weights of their strings. If you really wanted to you can rearrange the tension formula to derive the unit weight from published stats on the others but I have never bothered.

ToneControl

jasonbone75 said:

I have had a few 27" guitars at different tunings. Just providing real numbers for the OP to compare. From the first post we had no idea that they already have a 30" scale.

For me a 7 string is a far more useful option for B and lower when playing lead and rhythm parts - especially when changing guitars between songs. The muscle memory for stretches, multi string arpeggios and faster passages in my case is based on 25.5" with 27" being an OK compromise but jumping to 30" not worth it for the adjustment and concentration and in a mix nobody listening would notice the difference with high gain.

I would consider 30" if I had a project or set tuned down that low but for the odd song and riff it isn't worth it.

personal taste really.
I tried a 7 string, then got a very nice 8 string Schecter
I found it tricky, but certainly it does give you more options
so for once bought a new guitar, the 6 strong 30 inch version of the Schecter. I still love it
I want guitar-like top 3 strings, with deep bass on the bottom

I did buy an 8 string Harley Benton bass, which I planned to restring as an XRG
(Extended range guitar) - idea was to use normal guitar gauges on the top 3 or 4. However, it was hard to get ones with the right size ball ends, and I lost interest in the project, when I saw them selling used for more than I paid new

jasonbone75

ToneControl said:

jasonbone75 said:

I have had a few 27" guitars at different tunings. Just providing real numbers for the OP to compare. From the first post we had no idea that they already have a 30" scale.

For me a 7 string is a far more useful option for B and lower when playing lead and rhythm parts - especially when changing guitars between songs. The muscle memory for stretches, multi string arpeggios and faster passages in my case is based on 25.5" with 27" being an OK compromise but jumping to 30" not worth it for the adjustment and concentration and in a mix nobody listening would notice the difference with high gain.

I would consider 30" if I had a project or set tuned down that low but for the odd song and riff it isn't worth it.

personal taste really.
I tried a 7 string, then got a very nice 8 string Schecter
I found it tricky, but certainly it does give you more options
so for once bought a new guitar, the 6 strong 30 inch version of the Schecter. I still love it
I want guitar-like top 3 strings, with deep bass on the bottom

I did buy an 8 string Harley Benton bass, which I planned to restring as an XRG
(Extended range guitar) - idea was to use normal guitar gauges on the top 3 or 4. However, it was hard to get ones with the right size ball ends, and I lost interest in the project, when I saw them selling used for more than I paid new

Definitely personal taste. And perhaps physical size lmitations! I would struggle on an 8 string and end up hurting myself

CHRISB50

jasonbone75 said:

CHRISB50 said:

jasonbone75 said:

That Posen set is daft and completely unnecessary. Check out the total tension on 25.5 scale at B standard. I have put in a set of D'Addario EXL148 underneath to compare. The top set of the three is what I have on one of my 25.5 scale Majestys C standard and that feels roughly like a standard tuning set of 9.5s and plays fantastic.

If you are on Gibson scale well I'll bow out gracefully...

I would save the money for now and just get a set of 12s or 13s from your usual brand and try them. No need to go as heavy as the Posen set - it will feel like a scaffold board and need about 3 turns on the truss rod.

Do you actually have your own spreadsheet that can compare strings?

I do. You and anyone are welcome to save a copy: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18JC7vvjPNgdSQmZpb0q3Oovpr1LVGqPx/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102991997688816848157&rtpof=true&sd=true

It uses D'Addario specs for the calculations because most manufacturers don't publish unit weights of their strings. If you really wanted to you can rearrange the tension formula to derive the unit weight from published stats on the others but I have never bothered.

I’m not sure I would ever need to use it, but cheers. That’s very kind. 

jasonbone75

CHRISB50 said:

I’m not sure I would ever need to use it, but cheers. That’s very kind. 

I suspect that applies to most! I have a propensity for exploring deep rabbit holes...