Appointments for Guitar Shops?

Fortheloveofguitar

Moto Music in Cardiff is now appointment only as well. 

OilCityPickups

High streets are pretty much already dead. 

On my way down from my humble abode to the Oil City workshops, down Leyton High Road all that's left are fried chicken takeaways, Barbers,  hairdressers and of course the betting shops. 
Where there used to be pubs, wool shops, DIY shops and car accessory shops ... Now their windows are bricked up ... cheap double glazing installed and their landlords will be chucking them out at  £1500+ a month for a couple of cramped rooms. in betting shop doorways the hunched up quilts of homeless rough sleepers wait till they get kicked out at 'opening time'. The place smells of piss and desperation ... like so many of the High Streets of London's suburbs. 

Personally I'd take an appointment at Peach any day ... 

Pjon

Cols said:

Parker said:

Part of my growing up was walking shop to shop in each town and just browsing. Occasionally I bought. But this new business model just seems to be another nail in the coffin of the high street. 

Peach isn’t a high street store - it’s on an industrial estate.  It’s not exactly a place for popping into while you’re out for a stroll.

On Saturdays I drop one of my kids to an hour long club, five miles from home, and then hunt around for something to fill the time because going home is pointless. Often I'll fill the time by doing the family food shop, sometimes with coffee and a book, but occasionally I'll browse the bike shops, outdoor equipment places, and such. These are all on the same industrial estate - supermarkets, Halfords, Currys/PC World, B&M, various other specialist places, gyms, coffee shops, cafes. None, to my knowledge, need to be booked. (Thinking about it, I need to go to Halfords tonight. I doubt it will be the only place we visit over on that side of town.)

People treat these estates the same as they used to behave on the High Street, just driving from one unit to another instead of walking.

I don't think it is, but if the reason that Peach are giving is 'lack of passing trade', then they are very simply in the wrong place. 

Haych

Fortheloveofguitar said:

Moto Music in Cardiff is now appointment only as well. 

Moto Music is far off the well trodden path.  If I were Mike I'd be appointment only, too.

bgmartinsbridge

Maybe I'm getting old but unless I was collecting a specific guitar I'd feel uncomfortable going to a shop and being followed around. Private shopper syndrome. And then what's the point of going to the shop, may as well have it sent out, try it on your own amp and then just send it back.
Worryingly then doesn't it become like an asos business model where people buy three or four guitars, get them shipped and then return them after a couple of weeks.
Maybe I'm not the right customer base for shops anymore. 

Imagine going to look at a sofa and being told appointment only and the dfs staff would follow you. A friend was an area manager and I understand their hard ball tactics. Just take that to the next level. 

Albeit I totally get the business model. 

idiotwindow

My problem with the appointment approach isn't feeling pressured or "private shopper syndrome" (you could just as easily be self-conscious in any normal walk-in guitar shop if it isn't busy) but having to plan ahead just to buy a guitar, especially if it is difficult to get an appointment on the same-day or even the following day. If I have to book an appointment a week or so away I simply won't bother.

That said, I think my main objection to Peach's appointment-only policy is that it is Peach. Peach is a similar distance away from me as Coda but I will always go the latter and never the former – appointment-only or not. I have no idea why but there is something about Peach that I don't like. Appointment-only just gives me another reason not to go there.

Cols

Pjon said:

On Saturdays I drop one of my kids to an hour long club, five miles from home, and then hunt around for something to fill the time because going home is pointless. Often I'll fill the time by doing the family food shop, sometimes with coffee and a book, but occasionally I'll browse the bike shops, outdoor equipment places, and such. These are all on the same industrial estate - supermarkets, Halfords, Currys/PC World, B&M, various other specialist places, gyms, coffee shops, cafes. None, to my knowledge, need to be booked. (Thinking about it, I need to go to Halfords tonight. I doubt it will be the only place we visit over on that side of town.)

People treat these estates the same as they used to behave on the High Street, just driving from one unit to another instead of walking.
 

That’s fair enough.  I’m not sure it’s common for people to recreationally drive around an industrial estate during an idle hour though, like one would stroll along the high street or through a shopping mall.  People tend to go there for a specific purpose.

I don't think it is, but if the reason that Peach are giving is 'lack of passing trade', then they are very simply in the wrong place. 

Their store is pretty huge - locating it on the high street would undoubtedly cost a fortune in rent and business rates.

Added to that, they don’t rely on passing trade.  They were good enough to explain the logic behind their appointments decision, which is worth reading.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3231708/#Comment_3231708

OilCityPickups

This is the shape of things to come ... it makes massive sense for large retailers ... and soon there will be no small ones  left on high streets (or anywhere else for that matter) ... it's the way things are going. 

prowla

Cols said:

Parker said:

Part of my growing up was walking shop to shop in each town and just browsing. Occasionally I bought. But this new business model just seems to be another nail in the coffin of the high street. 

Peach isn’t a high street store - it’s on an industrial estate.  It’s not exactly a place for popping into while you’re out for a stroll.

In any case, they’ve done the sums and the appointments model seems to work for them.

Well, I would pop into a shop at a retail park or industrial estate whilst out and about.

In particular I would drop in to PMT Portsmouth if I was heading down to the coast, but have no clue as to when I'd get there; however, the last time I went there was the week before they were closing down, so I won't be doing that again.

I sometimes get in the car and just drive somewhere and see what I find when I get there; oftentimes the first I know of a place is when I'm there!

But, as you say it's the store's decision; if they're not interested in footfall then it's their choice.

OilCityPickups

prowla said:

Cols said:

Parker said:

Part of my growing up was walking shop to shop in each town and just browsing. Occasionally I bought. But this new business model just seems to be another nail in the coffin of the high street. 

Peach isn’t a high street store - it’s on an industrial estate.  It’s not exactly a place for popping into while you’re out for a stroll.

In any case, they’ve done the sums and the appointments model seems to work for them.

Well, I would pop into a shop at a retail park or industrial estate whilst out and about.

In particular I would drop in to PMT Portsmouth if I was heading down to the coast, but have no clue as to when I'd get there; however, the last time I went there was the week before they were closing down, so I won't be doing that again.

I sometimes get in the car and just drive somewhere and see what I find when I get there; oftentimes the first I know of a place is when I'm there!

But, as you say it's the store's decision; if they're not interested in footfall then it's their choice.

Of course appointments mean it is less likely for one to suffer the horrendous fate of Carl Chicken (the famous spelling mistake) who was one of our more annoying spotty young Saturday 'customers'  at my old shop, He was one of those teenagers who just won't leave shit alone ... even when told by the guvnor (me) not to plug in a particular guitar he invariably would ... then play ACDC out of tune ... Highway to Hell was often a fifteen minute rendition ... however I actually felt a bit sorry for him, as his parents were pretty dire> My dog Toddy used to come into work on the train with me every day and lay behind the counter ... he was terminally lazy ... but loved fuss from customers.
One Saturday the shop was full to bursting ... and that usually only took half a dozen people. I'd told Carl not to mess about with one of the new amps that had only just come in ... but he wouldn't listen ... he got on all fours to mess with the settings ... and I think this was an opportunity Toddy had been waiting for for a long time ... 
Suffice to say Carl never quite lived down being humped stupid by a very large and very friendly dog in front of a shop full of his peers.
Appointments are safer :-)

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

It is just another way of doing business. It has advantages and disadvantages. If you don't like it, don't go to that shop. There are lots of other shops. 

I like appointment guitar shopping. Yes, I often just walk in, but where possible I phone ahead and arrange a good time, and even when I don't I try to come in on a rainy Wednesday morning rather than a busy Friday night. This indicates to the retailer that I'm a serious buyer - not just some random tyre-kicker - and worth spending time with, worth taking trouble for (bringing extra guitars down from the storeroom if they seem likely to be of interest, finding a quiet place for me to sit down with them and leaving me there to explore my options properly, stuff like that). I have had great experiences with many different retailers, and a lot of that I put down to respecting their time and working with them so that we can both get a good result. 

While you may be able to just 'go to another shop' over there in Oz,that luxury doesn't exist in too many places in the UK anymore. 

ToneControl

bgmartinsbridge said:

Maybe I'm getting old but unless I was collecting a specific guitar I'd feel uncomfortable going to a shop and being followed around. Private shopper syndrome. And then what's the point of going to the shop, may as well have it sent out, try it on your own amp and then just send it back.
Worryingly then doesn't it become like an asos business model where people buy three or four guitars, get them shipped and then return them after a couple of weeks.
Maybe I'm not the right customer base for shops anymore. 

Imagine going to look at a sofa and being told appointment only and the dfs staff would follow you. A friend was an area manager and I understand their hard ball tactics. Just take that to the next level. 

Albeit I totally get the business model. 

I don't think that appointments-only has to result in high-pressure sales.
Surely the retailer is able  to offer a practice room, and leave the shopper alone, it works for me.

Sometimes I'm happy to just mail order. In fact that's what I mostly do because of the distances involved.

If I won the lottery, I'd open a guitar shop, to lose money in an entertaining and pleasing way.
I have various plans: 

1. A shop close to a major shopping mall (e.g. Trafford centre)
   
2. A shop close to a major motorway junction
   
3. A shop in an evening-promenading type location, rather than office-hours

Then I have conflicting ideas:

• Assume people are just testing models before buying online, therefore charge a fee per hour to test out gear, refundable on purchase
• Buy/import loads of second hand electrics, and end up with a shop like an electric-oriented Frailers
• museum style - charge for entry. Andy Thorntons used to do this for architectural antiques, again refundable against purchases
• Screen customers - tricky. Probably best done by having basic kit up front, and restricted access to a VIP room. Appointments can help with this. Or make it a club, you have to register to get in.  Amazon shops do this, and various shops like Costco

To really lose money elegantly and rewardingly, I'd have somewhere with live music on every day, somewhere busy, and a bar also selling food, with a shop attached in some way, like a cross between Ronnie Scotts, Denmark St and Afflecks Palace

FelineGuitars

Maybe it follows the Pareto principle that you will get 80% of your sales from 20% of your customers.

Running a "by appointment" model maybe lets them give time to those dedicated buyers, with fewer shop-floor staff than you would need to manage the shop having an open door policy

I don't know how immediately you can book an appointment, if you wee local could you get a slot in the next half hour? I'm sure you could if they were not overly busy

fretfinder

skunkwerx said:

Archery stores went the same way. Though they usually involve a few hour drive so not exactly the places you'd pop into for a browse. 

Its really great when I need new arrows or a bow. Because they will factor in set up time, tuning time and building time and you have the guys undivided attention. 

But its a real pain in the ass when you need an urgent fix for a tournament or something if something goes awry mid week.. these small things typically take less than an hour to remedy by an experienced person with the tools and gear to hand. 

It is annoying for small bits.. arrow vanes, points, nocks, or generally anything 'bolt on'.. as they still havent caught up to next day delivery when ordering online, and it could be anywhere from 3 to 7 working days.. and I'd really rather just make the drive on a day off to get it sorted in one morning so my gear is ready for the weekend shooting.

i'm so used to guitar stores and, well a lot of places offering next day haha. 

I ordered a new string for my longbow.. 5-6 week delivery time! Shop passes order to the bowyer who made the longbow in Wales, bowyer busy making custom Longbows for people.. 

Granted even strings are made to order but, it takes an hour or two for a bowyer to do this.. I keep meaning to buy my own jig and... attempt it myself.. 

I think we should all take up archery, then we’d really have something to moan about! 

monquixote

I think it's a great idea.

I've been into guitar shops multiple times and then walked out again because it's full of groups of 14 year olds going "DIDDLY DIDDLY DIDDLY SKREEE!!!" over and over again on a Jackson they couldn't possibly afford and as a result there is no chance of trying anything or if you do being able to actually hear what's going on.

There was a recent Andertons interview where Lee said "We used to be a shop with an internet business, but now we are an internet business who happen to own a shop". I'm sure the same is equally true for Peach.

Also for a company with as much stock as they have it's not all going to be on the shop floor so it's better to ask for what you need and make sure it's there.

Tannin

guitarjack66 said:

Tannin said:

It is just another way of doing business. It has advantages and disadvantages. If you don't like it, don't go to that shop. There are lots of other shops. 

I like appointment guitar shopping. Yes, I often just walk in, but where possible I phone ahead and arrange a good time, and even when I don't I try to come in on a rainy Wednesday morning rather than a busy Friday night. This indicates to the retailer that I'm a serious buyer - not just some random tyre-kicker - and worth spending time with, worth taking trouble for (bringing extra guitars down from the storeroom if they seem likely to be of interest, finding a quiet place for me to sit down with them and leaving me there to explore my options properly, stuff like that). I have had great experiences with many different retailers, and a lot of that I put down to respecting their time and working with them so that we can both get a good result. 

While you may be able to just 'go to another shop' over there in Oz,that luxury doesn't exist in too many places in the UK anymore. 

Mate, you have to learn how to travel. In my state - which is roughly the same size as Scotland - there are exactly two guitar shops. (Counting only places which sell new guitars and carry a fair range in stock. Not counting second-hand places (two in Hobart, possibly - or possibly not - one or two more at the other end of the state which I don't know about), or hole-in-corner places which carry two or three cheap and nasty Chinese things.)  There used to be three but one closed down last year. And, come to that, the Launceston one isn't in the first rank - nice people but very dear and mainly there for the schools market. So just one really.

For anything beyond that you have to go to Melbourne (same size city as Birmingham or Manchester and same distance from me as London to Frankfurt) or Sydney (same size as Melbourne, same distance as London to Rome). 

It's not hard. Just do it.

Tannin

FelineGuitars said:

Maybe it follows the Pareto principle that you will get 80% of your sales from 20% of your customers.

Running a "by appointment" model maybe lets them give time to those dedicated buyers, with fewer shop-floor staff than you would need to manage the shop having an open door policy

I don't know how immediately you can book an appointment, if you wee local could you get a slot in the next half hour? I'm sure you could if they were not overly busy

When I bought my computer shop, two things I absolutely insisted on were (1) easy to find and easy to park and (2)  no passing trade. 

it was a great decision. Anyone who walked in was more than likely a genuine buyer and got our very best attention. I remember once chatting to a competitor who owned a shop in the main street. (We were competitors but friendly and used to help each other out from time to time.) He was very pleased that he and his sales team had a 17% hit rate. 
(17 walk-ins out of 100 actually bought a computer.) He reckoned that was great - and under all the circumstances it very likely was. I didn't have the heart to tell him that in our non-main-street location with our low-key word-of-mouth advertising policy, our sales hit rate was around 80%.

(Sigh. Just think of all the money I made back then in the 1990s. Pity I spent it all.)

Parker

I am still trying to formulate the reasoning behind the appointment-only change. It could be one or a mix of the following:

- It's cheaper to staff. You aren't employing 2+ people to stand behind a counter all day, every day.

- It's a lazy equivalent of 'working from home' for the retail sector. It worked during covid (as the alternative was closing down) so it is now an accepted business model.

- It's a reflection of the high levels of entitlement in society today where guitar shop owners feel there is little worth in offering a public service for kids to come and drool (aspire?) and bored husbands come to talk about their past gigging careers.Instead, we shall treat you like a king on the red carpet....'just leave your card details at the door. Minimum spend is 50 quid!'. You should feel so privileged that we have opened the store just for you!

Frankly, by the definition of some members here, I am a tyre kicker. (Aren't most of the public to an extent?). But also with every customer comes an opportunity to sell. We're not all 'Type A' personalities that meticulously plan our day, with a precision route and time to military standard and have exact money counted in my pocket to buy a high end guitar. Artists are often impulsive and will live on beans on toast for a year after stretching themselves on a guitar they didn't plan to buy. Choosing the appointment-only model, in my opinion, just sends a signal you hold general foot fall traffic in disdain and you don't need (or cannot be bothered) with it.

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

guitarjack66 said:

Tannin said:

It is just another way of doing business. It has advantages and disadvantages. If you don't like it, don't go to that shop. There are lots of other shops. 

I like appointment guitar shopping. Yes, I often just walk in, but where possible I phone ahead and arrange a good time, and even when I don't I try to come in on a rainy Wednesday morning rather than a busy Friday night. This indicates to the retailer that I'm a serious buyer - not just some random tyre-kicker - and worth spending time with, worth taking trouble for (bringing extra guitars down from the storeroom if they seem likely to be of interest, finding a quiet place for me to sit down with them and leaving me there to explore my options properly, stuff like that). I have had great experiences with many different retailers, and a lot of that I put down to respecting their time and working with them so that we can both get a good result. 

While you may be able to just 'go to another shop' over there in Oz,that luxury doesn't exist in too many places in the UK anymore. 

Mate, you have to learn how to travel. In my state - which is roughly the same size as Scotland - there are exactly two guitar shops. (Counting only places which sell new guitars and carry a fair range in stock. Not counting second-hand places (two in Hobart, possibly - or possibly not - one or two more at the other end of the state which I don't know about), or hole-in-corner places which carry two or three cheap and nasty Chinese things.)  There used to be three but one closed down last year. And, come to that, the Launceston one isn't in the first rank - nice people but very dear and mainly there for the schools market. So just one really.

For anything beyond that you have to go to Melbourne (same size city as Birmingham or Manchester and same distance from me as London to Frankfurt) or Sydney (same size as Melbourne, same distance as London to Rome). 

It's not hard. Just do it.

You must have no idea of the cost of living over here,it's ridiculously expensive just to put petrol in your car let alone other sundries from a couple of hours trip.

randella

OilCityPickups said:

High streets are pretty much already dead. 

On my way down from my humble abode to the Oil City workshops, down Leyton High Road all that's left are fried chicken takeaways, Barbers,  hairdressers and of course the betting shops. 
Where there used to be pubs, wool shops, DIY shops and car accessory shops ... Now their windows are bricked up ... cheap double glazing installed and their landlords will be chucking them out at  £1500+ a month for a couple of cramped rooms. in betting shop doorways the hunched up quilts of homeless rough sleepers wait till they get kicked out at 'opening time'. The place smells of piss and desperation ... like so many of the High Streets of London's suburbs. 

Personally I'd take an appointment at Peach any day ... 

It's going in different ways near me. My local high street is doing well, with independent coffee shops and hipster pizza places sharing the road with trad businesses (we have an ironmongers with a *very* loyal customer base who all hate B&Q ).

The town centre is desperate. I had a funeral to go to the other week, realised I didn't have a white shirt that fit. There used to be half a dozen or more places that would sell you one - Next, Top Man, Burton, M&S, a bunch of indys. All gone. It took me two hours to find one, I was lucky to even get that.

Cheap sandwiches, mobile top ups, vapes, you're covered. Everything else? Not so much. What I don't get is that people still come and walk up and down the shopping centre just like they did when there were actual shops.

Physical retail is an odd space these days, I wouldn't like to chance it.