Does anyone write lyrics?

Tannin

I used to be a lyricist first, a songwriter very much second. My lyrics were what my music stood or fell by. But over the years I have gradually become less and less interested in lyrics. These days I note that many of the most fascinating, long-lasting, all-time=-classic songs have lyrics which are triumphs of ambiguity. American Pie is a perfect example. we all spent decades trying to work out exactly what it was all about. In fact, as Don Mclean has said himself, it was just a slew of words that evoked a mood and seemed to hang together. It wasn't "about" anything exact, it just is.

One day, when I start writing lyrics again, they won't make any particular sense - and they'll be the best , most ,memorable, most approachable lyrics I ever wrote.

monquixote

TTony said:

monquixote said:

it seems like creating a note book of ideas is the way lots of people do it.

I have a document permanently open on my laptop so I can just capture ideas / phrases whenever they appear in my head.

I've found having a theme first works for me.  What am I writing a song about?  That's been step1.  Step2 (to ~99) is then refining the words so that my toes don't curl quite as far.

TheBigDipper said:

 You might enjoy reading Jeff Tweedy's book "How To Write One Song". 

That had some interesting tips in it, so was certainly worth a read.

Interesting that you enjoyed the Jeff Tweedy book.

I’ve had it recommended as few times but I don’t really like Wilco so I haven’t bothered so far. Maybe I should check it out.

thecolourbox

I've been thinking about this and actually in recent stuff I've been sketching out I've used most of the techniques here that others have suggested as well as the ones I've suggested. 

I have a word document on Google Drive which has every lyric I've ever written as well as a section at the start with just snippets of phrases or ideas for use later on.

I'm working on one song which is one of those annoying ones where you have the accompanying riffs but can't put an interesting tune to them. I'd initially got a good chorus but then realised it was cooked from a Taylor Swift song (lol whoops) but I've since managed to invert the melody a bit and used an old lyric idea from a few years ago from my Google Doc and boom it's come on already. 

My most recent composition challenge entry was one where I essentially wrote the tune using scat vocals on a voice note ( Dolby On is a good app for that), then wrote the lyrics based on the phrase "dear me" as I liked the pun. That tactic lends itself to the kind of repeated verse structure of the song. I had the idea of doing one verse for each person I wanted to say something to, then made up some absolute drivel initially that made me cringe but then a mixture of Rhymezone.com and just trial and error singing each line until the words fit, eventually it came together with enough abstraction to not sound too much like a GCSE English lit exam submission. I'll let the judgement be passed in the composition challenge as to whether that tactic worked well or not. My last round entry also used this tactic to be fair as well

Kurtis

It's like everything really, the more you practice the better you get.

Good songwriters don't just pull it out of thin air one day, they're thinking about it all the time. Taking inspiration from anything and everything. 
It's their job, their hobby, their passion, their life. 

Generally, I've found, guitar players have spent far more time playing guitar than working on their voice and lyrics. 

Sporky

Some of the music I like most has absolutely impenetrable lyrics. The music doesn't, in my view, suffer for it.

Hopesfall are particularly good at making total gibberish work - it sounds downright profound until you read it back.

Conversely there's a load of really clear heartfelt stuff that's so personal it can be quite cringey to listen to. Abstract leaves room for the listener to apply their own meaning.

monquixote

Kurtis said:

It's like everything really, the more you practice the better you get.

Good songwriters don't just pull it out of thin air one day, they're thinking about it all the time. Taking inspiration from anything and everything. 
It's their job, their hobby, their passion, their life. 

Generally, I've found, guitar players have spent far more time playing guitar than working on their voice and lyrics. 

Totally agree

I was watching a YT video about songwriting and the guy said his number one tip was he used to write 10 songs and record them as an album and now he writes 50 and picks the best ten.

Habanero

I’ve just been on a sunshine holiday and ended up with 7 new lyrics, while hiding under a parasol in the sweltering heat.

Petepassion

Sporky said:

Some of the music I like most has absolutely impenetrable lyrics. The music doesn't, in my view, suffer for it.

Hopesfall are particularly good at making total gibberish work - it sounds downright profound until you read it back.

Conversely there's a load of really clear heartfelt stuff that's so personal it can be quite cringey to listen to. Abstract leaves room for the listener to apply their own meaning.

I must confess to writing very heartfelt, cringy lyrics 

AlbertC

I do a fair amount of songwriting but whereas the music side comes very naturally, lyrics take a lot more effort. 

I find it much easier to write lyrics when you have a title first, or at least some sort of prompt. I have a list of potential titles gathered from various sources - reading books, articles, listening to conversations. I jot down anything that sounds appealing and might work, such as well used expressions…or twist them around -  Don’t Look Back in Anger is a well known obvious example.
 

I also sing nonsense along to the melody and sometimes a line pops out which scans nicely, so I expand from that. 

monquixote

AlbertC said:

I do a fair amount of songwriting but whereas the music side comes very naturally, lyrics take a lot more effort. 

I find it much easier to write lyrics when you have a title first, or at least some sort of prompt. I have a list of potential titles gathered from various sources - reading books, articles, listening to conversations. I jot down anything that sounds appealing and might work, such as well used expressions…or twist them around -  Don’t Look Back in Anger is a well known obvious example.
 

I also sing nonsense along to the melody and sometimes a line pops out which scans nicely, so I expand from that. 

From the few things I've read it seems to be the most common thing that productive lyricists do is to just have loads of stuff to call on.

I'm currently blocked on a track I've made which has instrumentation, chords and a melody, but no lyrics. I've been very blocked on coming up with any lyrics for it. Today I went for a walk and some lyric ideas came to me which I actually don't mind, but they are completely wrong for the song. 
Previously I would have dismissed them, but I wrote them down for usage some other time. 

One thing I really struggle with is that often the melody I come up with gets locked to the guide words I came up with which often I don't like or are very cliche, but that's the words I hear the song with now and I can't get away from it as my brain goes "Oh I know that song it goes.... " and refuses to think of anything else.

monquixote

Has anyone tried object writing and did you find it useful for your writing?

TTony

monquixote said:

One thing I really struggle with is that often the melody I come up with gets locked to the guide words I came up with which often I don't like or are very cliche, but that's the words I hear the song with now and I can't get away from it as my brain goes "Oh I know that song it goes.... " and refuses to think of anything else.

Maybe you* need a Bernie Taupin - a lyricist partner for songwriting?

*all of us who are struggling with lyrics.  Are words and music different skill sets, is there any reason we should expect to be able to do both to a similar standard?

monquixote said:

Has anyone tried sense writing and did you find it useful for your writing?

No idea what that is.

monquixote

TTony said:

monquixote said:

One thing I really struggle with is that often the melody I come up with gets locked to the guide words I came up with which often I don't like or are very cliche, but that's the words I hear the song with now and I can't get away from it as my brain goes "Oh I know that song it goes.... " and refuses to think of anything else.

Maybe you* need a Bernie Taupin - a lyricist partner for songwriting?

*all of us who are struggling with lyrics.  Are words and music different skill sets, is there any reason we should expect to be able to do both to a similar standard?

monquixote said:

Has anyone tried sense writing and did you find it useful for your writing?

No idea what that is.

I think it's a completely different skill set, but unfortunately if you want to be a one man band it's a skill you have to have and I lack. I was very lucky that I used to be in a band with an amazing poet (he actually works in poetry professionally), but I've never been so lucky again. I've decided I want to teach myself every part of it so that even if I'm never going to be great (looking at you singing) I'm not going to be blocked.


My bad sorry I meant object writing it's from the book "how to write better lyrics"

https://objectwriting.com/

It's a method that was developed by a Berkley professor and used by Gillian Welsh, John Mayer and various other people that he taught. You essentially pick a subject and just write about it for 5 or 10 minutes without really worrying what you are writing.

TTony

Udemy have a few courses, and one of their regular (permanent?) discount deals on at the moment.

So I’ve bought a couple.  I’m going to learn something from them, and probably quite a few somethings.