I'm confused about boost pedals

Lebarque

Neilybob said:

Lebarque said:

I love setting my clean boost (Keeley Katana Mini) so that it pushes my clean amp to on-the-edge break up.

I share your love of this superb little pedal. When I use it to push my tweed 5E3 over the edge into distortion it is just epic. 

How do you have the internal dip switches set? 

@Neilybob ;; Aha, a fellow Katanarer! 5E3 here too. Although I'm just trying to figure out whether it's pushing the amp into breakup or it's low headroom, so it's distorting itself!

I guess it doesn't matter if it sounds good, but I'd like to know so I know what to look out for in a boost. I have it on 'clean' boost and with the treble cut on. This gives my bridge pickup a nice bass boost as well as the breakup, without the treble getting out of control. How about you?

The 'dirty' boost setting is too dirty with humbuckers for me and I find I'm turning the boost down so that it's actually quieter than when bypassed.

A katana with a bass cut would be nice to use with the neck humbucker, but they don't include that. Hence why I'm trying to understand all this, so I can grab another boost which works for me

Just get a TC Spark I hear some people cry. That's even more confusing, since it has a volume AND gain control lol!

Lebarque

ThorpyFX said:

Lebarque said:

ThorpyFX said:

Lebarque said:

My thread seems to have been de'railed'! Thanks for speaking in English, @Sporky . Your suggestion about the differing frequencies pushing the amp into breakup sooner/later could well be right.

Thanks also, @Wazmeister . That's useful to know. Funnily enough, I probably lean to the opposite: boost pedals that push an amp into breakup sooner.

I'm still confused about what a high headroom boost is though. @ThorpyFX Heavy Water is marketed as such, but what are the benefits? Waz's assertion seems to be that means it will provide more of a volume boost and not push the amp into breakup so soon. But is that right?

And what effect do the quoted DB figures on pedals have? What's the advantage of having a 35DB boost over a 20DB one. I understand it will be louder, but does that mean more headroom etc. etc.

In my simple head, if you're running a clean amp and slam it with a boost, the clean sound will get louder to the point where the amp is receiving so much signal that it runs out of headroom and starts breaking up.

I'm still confused how DBs and boost headroom fits into this. And how different volumes and levels of breakup are achieved by different boosts.

Ok, there is always variations as to how people use terminology with regards to pedals and amps. 

What I MEAN by high headroom boost is as follows,

firstly I describe headroom as the amount signal space you have before the pedal begins to distort itself. What this means with regards the heavy water is that it doesn’t distort itself until the very upper reaches of the boost knob. Until that point it just keeps on boosting the signal you put into it and making it louder in order to “hit” the front end of your valve amp harder. This essentially causes your amp to distort but without adding too much extra distortion to the mix. 

Now if you boost heavily into heavy water then eventually you’ll breach the headroom of the boost… everything has limits 

Hope that makes sense? 

Many thanks, @ThorpyFX ;

I'm finding that using PAFs into my Keeley Katana Mini results in light breakup at a volume level that's not much higher than when the pedal's off. This is a good thing for home playing, but does it mean that the pedal is a low headroom boost and is distorting itself rather than pushing the amp into breakup?

And if I used the high headroom Heavy Water, would it be much louder when a) the amp started breaking up or the pedal started distorting itself at the end of the dial?

And where do dB's fit into it?

 Correct the keeley katana is breaking up itself earlier. This isn’t a bad thing as the character of the katana is great. 

The heavy water will distort the preamp of your amp at the same point the katana does because the common denominator is the headroom limit of your amp. The katana will sound dirtier earlier because it will be adding its own distortion to the mix. 

The heavy water will remain cleaner for longer and when your amp starts to distort it’ll be the preamp doing its thing only. Push past that point and the heavy water will start to clip mildly and that’ll mix in with the amps distortion.

as for dBs… this is a logarithmic scale to describe sound pressure levels in this case. 

More dBs equals more boost available… 

Thanks, @ThorpyFX . Really interesting.

So I guess I don't know what the difference in sound is between the boost pedal distorting or smacking the preamp into breakup! 

What other low headroom boosts are there then? Is this where treble boosters come in?

ThorpyFX

Lebarque said:

Thanks, @ThorpyFX . Really interesting.

So I guess I don't know what the difference in sound is between the boost pedal distorting or smacking the preamp into breakup! 

What other low headroom boosts are there then? Is this where treble boosters come in?

I wouldn’t worry about it too much, if it sounds good….. it is good. 

As for treble boosters….. totally different kettle of fish. They are essentially a frequency dependent booster and they focus on one particular focus and drop off either side from that peak…. (Boosting less as the frequency moves above and below the chosen specific peak) 

treble booster into 5e3 can be glorious though… try our HAVE BLUE. 

Neilybob

ThorpyFX said:

Lebarque said:

Thanks, @ThorpyFX . Really interesting.

So I guess I don't know what the difference in sound is between the boost pedal distorting or smacking the preamp into breakup! 

What other low headroom boosts are there then? Is this where treble boosters come in?

I wouldn’t worry about it too much, if it sounds good….. it is good. 

As for treble boosters….. totally different kettle of fish. They are essentially a frequency dependent booster and they focus on one particular focus and drop off either side from that peak…. (Boosting less as the frequency moves above and below the chosen specific peak) 

treble booster into 5e3 can be glorious though… try our HAVE BLUE. 

I have to say my ole Veteran Rangemaster side also sounds great through my 5E3. 

fastonebaz

I use a TC spark mini,  there's only 1 Knob.

slacker

I did stack 3 boosters together, that sounded good.

Lebarque

fastonebaz said:

I use a TC spark mini,  there's only 1 Knob.

Yeh, but what about the pedal?

fastonebaz

Lebarque said:

fastonebaz said:

I use a TC spark mini,  there's only 1 Knob.

Yeh, but what about the pedal?

Grabbing the knob when you need to give it a quick tweak is easy but finding that on / off but in the dark can be a bit tricky, sometimes I end up pushing the wrong thing altogether, but when i do find it it certainly makes a loud noise that is very satisfying.

Lebarque

fastonebaz said:

Lebarque said:

fastonebaz said:

I use a TC spark mini,  there's only 1 Knob.

Yeh, but what about the pedal?

Grabbing the knob when you need to give it a quick tweak is easy but finding that on / off but in the dark can be a bit tricky, sometimes I end up pushing the wrong thing altogether, but when i do find it it certainly makes a loud noise that is very satisfying.

Enough about your sex life, pal. We're talking about boost pedals here.

ecc83

The whole idea of a "Boost Pedal" is really a bit of a marketing exercise.

The non-technical gitist is likely seduced into thinking it will lift his AC15 (say) into 50W Marshall ripsnorting territory for a solo? Not so. All a BP can do is increase the signal voltage* from the guitar and so drive the front end of the amplifier harder. If the amp is already putting out say 10 watts the extra pre amp boost can push it to 15 or more watts but the VOLUME difference between 10W and 15 or even 20 is marginal. You really do have to get to 50W or so to get a significant boost in volume.

What the BP will do is usually make the amp more distorted but that might be all you actually want?

I shall apologize for the diversion into decibels but only slightly! You will not get far in the electronics world of guitar kit and sound unless you learn a bit about dBs.

*Which is why a mid band boost is often far better. The amplifier often has some 'room' for a boost at 2-3kHz and since that is slap bang at our ear's most sensitive region (except mine!) and where guitar speakers are usually most sensitive you can get the best bang for your BP buck!

Dave.

TimmyO

ecc83 said:

The whole idea of a "Boost Pedal" is really a bit of a marketing exercise.

The non-technical gitist is likely seduced into thinking it will lift his AC15 (say) into 50W Marshall ripsnorting territory for a solo?.

What? 

Nobody thinks that. 

ecc83

TimmyO said:

ecc83 said:

The whole idea of a "Boost Pedal" is really a bit of a marketing exercise.

The non-technical gitist is likely seduced into thinking it will lift his AC15 (say) into 50W Marshall ripsnorting territory for a solo?.

What? 

Nobody thinks that. 

Maybe I was a teensy bit hyperbolic but when you have spent as long as I did dealing with Joe Public you cease to be surprised at the things they believe!

How come Russ Andrews is still (afaik) in business!

Dave.