Pickups for ES-355

stickyfiddle

Dare I ask…? 

The Custombuckers I have now are fine. They’re actually good for clean jazzy stuff and are extremely low output for PAFs- both around 6.9 ohm. 

I don’t want anything hot by any stretch, but I’m missing the lovely mid-position chimey jangle I get from my SG and CS-336 that I can’t for the life of me get consistently with any combination of pickup heights. Bearing in mind this has an ebony fretboard I’d expect to get more of that sort of vibe rather than less. But it sounds great on bridge & good (if a little wooly) on neck.

 Let’s say I had the following list of wants, what would you try? 

- aged gold covers but not super-aged
- typical PAF output - 7-8ohm range (yes I know that doesn’t mean much in isolation)
- probably alnico4 magnets ? 

Soundwise I want to cover broadly from Steve Cropper up to EVH on Beat It. Definitely nothing heavier than that and leaning mostly on the cleaner half of that range as priority. 

Mules? Imperials? Something else? Or even maybe something more jangly in the neck like a P90 or Staple? 

KevS

I have a SD Seth Lover,non dipped in the neck..I think Alnico II and a SD Custom Custom although wound hotter,but doesn't act like it in the Bridge..This is quite mid focused but a little bass light,this works out well for a Semi Hollow,,Alnico II though..It stops the runaway bass that can happen at higher volume plus drives the mids..This is in a rewired Epiphone Sheraton..I've saw EVH fans say they like the Custom Custom..I use mine with a 500k pot and 22 uf cap though,not in a Strat..The Seth reacts so well with tone and volume controls..

I am considering swapping these to my Eastman 386..The Pickups in there are 10 K Kent Armstrong's,but actually sound pretty good..A hard decision..The 386 is the nicer guitar..

I have Bare Knuckle Mules in my 10lb Les Paul Standard..I have put a 47 uf cap on the bridge..
I have Lollar Imperials in my old style 9.5 Les Paul Classic again 47 uf cap on the bridge or too thin and shrill..
These are Alnico II neck and V bridge..

As another neck pickup I have a Seymour 59 in the neck of my Guild Bluesbird..
That is good too..

All pickups have the metal covers on..

chrisj1602

What about the BKP Riff Raffs, they’re a more 60s PAF aren’t they?

stickyfiddle

Cheers chaps. 

I had (perhaps-wrongly) assumed that RiffRaffs were going to be best for ACDC and hence the Mule might be better from their range, but would be very keen to hear from anyone using them in a Semi in particular

I also have @OilCityPickups on my list, obviously, but I know how Ash feels about covers on humbuckers....  

OilCityPickups

stickyfiddle said:

Cheers chaps. 

I had (perhaps-wrongly) assumed that RiffRaffs were going to be best for ACDC and hence the Mule might be better from their range, but would be very keen to hear from anyone using them in a Semi in particular

I also have @OilCityPickups on my list, obviously, but I know how Ash feels about covers on humbuckers....  

Ha!!!! Putting your pickups in tin cans again ;-) 
And wow those Custombuckers are WAY low output! 
Had you thought alnico 3?  Nice sweet compression without muddyness ... nice jangle too. 

timmypix

Summoning the PAF hoarder and 335-owner himself @nacnudnai ;

stickyfiddle

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

Cheers chaps. 

I had (perhaps-wrongly) assumed that RiffRaffs were going to be best for ACDC and hence the Mule might be better from their range, but would be very keen to hear from anyone using them in a Semi in particular

I also have @OilCityPickups on my list, obviously, but I know how Ash feels about covers on humbuckers....  

Ha!!!! Putting your pickups in tin cans again ;-) 
And wow those Custombuckers are WAY low output! 
Had you thought alnico 3?  Nice sweet compression without muddyness ... nice jangle too. 

Trouble is going no-cover on a 355 just feels dirty… 

I have thought a lot about alnico3 actually. My SG has A3 57 Classics from a very small run Gibson did about 10 years ago, and they’re genuinely fabulous - night and day compared with regular A2 57s. 

But the custombuckers in his 355 are also A3 and they’re just a little bland, so not sure how much of that is magnets and how much is wire & winding

rlw

RiffRaffs could be overwhelming in a semi-hollow.  I have a pair in an LP and they are are quite powerful, to the extent that both I and the previous owner considered swapping them out for something a bit calmer.

DannyP

I have a pair of Oil City Forces Sweethearts in an ES 355 kit I built myself, and they sound lovely and open/airy despite what the man himself says about the "tin cans" I keep them in!

Maybe a smidge reserved for the AC/DC side of things, but there's always pedals...

nacnudnai

timmypix said:

Summoning the PAF hoarder and 335-owner himself @nacnudnai ;

Good timing of sorts, over the last few months I have installed probably about 20 different sets in my 335 .

As it turns out, I'm currently testing some Custombuckers in it - but mine are the old spec which were a higher wind (I think they changed to current spec in 2019...maybe?). They've always been Alnico 3, afaik. Custombuckers are nice, but not the best I've had in.

I have tried a fair few Alnico 4 sets, so I'll start with the better sets I tried. Sorry in advance for the stream of thought.

- OX4 Low wind worked well, were on the brighter and janglier side of things. Felt a bit brittle under gain.
- BKP Mule. Very nice, more low end and mids than the OX4 but still plenty of brightness. A bit hotter and probably handles gain well
- Montys Overspun. These are actually going in the 335 soon (haven't been in yet), but I have compared them directly to the Mules. In the same ballpark as the Mules, but a bit thicker and everso slightly rounder on the high end. If you wanted something that handled gain a bit better, but still had a nice middle position, these would be a good shout.
- Montys Underspun. This is A4 bridge and A5 neck. These are probably a lower wind than your Custombuckers, (6.1k neck, 6.9k bridge), but have a lovely jangly middle position. Very different to the Custombuckers, they are quite skinny on the low end and quite bright.
- Sunbear SB59PAF. A4 Bridge, A3 neck. I think one of the best bridge pickups I've tried in my 335 - plenty of balls, but bright and brash. Very close to the 335 sound I hear in my head. Neck pickup is excellent, but my only remark would be it didn't feel like a 335 neck pickup to me - whatever that means...
- Wizz A4 Premium Clone. I've always struggled with the neck pickup on this set, it is just missing something to me and can be slightly wooly (but isn't bassy). It worked better in the 335 than any Les Paul though. Bridge pickup is very nice, quite aggressive but also does the boxy thing.
- Brandwound 1959 Clone. My favourite in the 335 so far, hands down. Probably the darkest, relative to the above, but super clear in all positions. Has a woodiness and boxiness which really suits a 335 to me. Not easy to get your hands on though.

Other notable mentions of different magnet types.

- Oil City Riot Acts. Alnico 3 in both positions, these have worked brilliantly in every single guitar I've put them in. In a 335, they still sound like a 335. Lovely cleans, and in my opinion they handle gain just as well.
- Seymour Duncan Custom Shop MJ's Magicbuckers. Alnico 3. Stupidly expensive, but one of the best sets of anything I've ever tried. Everything I like in a PAF-alike.
- Gibson T-Types. Alnico 5. These work very well in a 335, and have a particularly nice middle position.
- Gibson 500T/496R. Ceramic/Alnico 5. Tried for a laugh, actually sounded really good.
- OX4 Rollin' Man. Alnico 5. Peter Green set, felt a bit too bright and plinky in my Les Pauls, but worked way better in a 335. Out of phase middle, so bear that in mind.

guitargeek62

Interesting, I’m loving the Custombuckers in my TL, though haven’t measured the output - are yours the (Al)III version too? 

I know these ones are lower output than I usually go for, but they’re working really well for my tastes & the middle position is lush, to my ears

stickyfiddle

@nacnudnai cheers that’s a great bit of info! I’ll have a proper Google later but includes some stuff I’d never even heard of m, never mind thought about! 

@guitargeek62 i believe all the CBs are A3. It’s not that these are bad by any stretch, they just don’t quite do what I want them to. 

One thing I am set on though is BKP 550k pots and giving myself the ability to change pickups without taking the whole harness out…!! 

rlw

Stormy Mondays are good in a semi-hollow body too.. 

OilCityPickups

stickyfiddle said:

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

Cheers chaps. 

I had (perhaps-wrongly) assumed that RiffRaffs were going to be best for ACDC and hence the Mule might be better from their range, but would be very keen to hear from anyone using them in a Semi in particular

I also have @OilCityPickups on my list, obviously, but I know how Ash feels about covers on humbuckers....  

Ha!!!! Putting your pickups in tin cans again ;-) 
And wow those Custombuckers are WAY low output! 
Had you thought alnico 3?  Nice sweet compression without muddyness ... nice jangle too. 

Trouble is going no-cover on a 355 just feels dirty… 

I have thought a lot about alnico3 actually. My SG has A3 57 Classics from a very small run Gibson did about 10 years ago, and they’re genuinely fabulous - night and day compared with regular A2 57s. 

But the custombuckers in his 355 are also A3 and they’re just a little bland, so not sure how much of that is magnets and how much is wire & winding

I feel personally that alnico 3 ... probably because it's the lowest magnetic strength alnico ... needs at least a 'fully wound' pickup to give it the signal boost it needs. 
Think of perhaps the most famous alnico 3 pickup, the early Telecaster bridge pickup ... it had a good solid 43awg winding over 9k which gave the A3 magnets something to chew on. 

stickyfiddle

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

Cheers chaps. 

I had (perhaps-wrongly) assumed that RiffRaffs were going to be best for ACDC and hence the Mule might be better from their range, but would be very keen to hear from anyone using them in a Semi in particular

I also have @OilCityPickups on my list, obviously, but I know how Ash feels about covers on humbuckers....  

Ha!!!! Putting your pickups in tin cans again ;-) 
And wow those Custombuckers are WAY low output! 
Had you thought alnico 3?  Nice sweet compression without muddyness ... nice jangle too. 

Trouble is going no-cover on a 355 just feels dirty… 

I have thought a lot about alnico3 actually. My SG has A3 57 Classics from a very small run Gibson did about 10 years ago, and they’re genuinely fabulous - night and day compared with regular A2 57s. 

But the custombuckers in his 355 are also A3 and they’re just a little bland, so not sure how much of that is magnets and how much is wire & winding

I feel personally that alnico 3 ... probably because it's the lowest magnetic strength alnico ... needs at least a 'fully wound' pickup to give it the signal boost it needs. 
Think of perhaps the most famous alnico 3 pickup, the early Telecaster bridge pickup ... it had a good solid 43awg winding over 9k which gave the A3 magnets something to chew on. 

That feels sensible. So maybe something A3 but def not underwound might suit me well then, similar to my existing SG pickups, which do the middle position thing perfectly… 

OilCityPickups

stickyfiddle said:

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

Cheers chaps. 

I had (perhaps-wrongly) assumed that RiffRaffs were going to be best for ACDC and hence the Mule might be better from their range, but would be very keen to hear from anyone using them in a Semi in particular

I also have @OilCityPickups on my list, obviously, but I know how Ash feels about covers on humbuckers....  

Ha!!!! Putting your pickups in tin cans again ;-) 
And wow those Custombuckers are WAY low output! 
Had you thought alnico 3?  Nice sweet compression without muddyness ... nice jangle too. 

Trouble is going no-cover on a 355 just feels dirty… 

I have thought a lot about alnico3 actually. My SG has A3 57 Classics from a very small run Gibson did about 10 years ago, and they’re genuinely fabulous - night and day compared with regular A2 57s. 

But the custombuckers in his 355 are also A3 and they’re just a little bland, so not sure how much of that is magnets and how much is wire & winding

I feel personally that alnico 3 ... probably because it's the lowest magnetic strength alnico ... needs at least a 'fully wound' pickup to give it the signal boost it needs. 
Think of perhaps the most famous alnico 3 pickup, the early Telecaster bridge pickup ... it had a good solid 43awg winding over 9k which gave the A3 magnets something to chew on. 

That feels sensible. So maybe something A3 but def not underwound might suit me well then, similar to my existing SG pickups, which do the middle position thing perfectly… 

I always think A3 Humbuckers need a good 7.8-8k in the bridge and not under a 7.4/7.5k in the neck in order to have a reasonable bass response.  

stickyfiddle

FWIW I took reading of my other Gibsons while I had the multimeter out… 

SG - Gibson 57 Classic with Alnico 3

7.8 bridge 

7.75 neck

CS336 - OX4, alnico 4

7.8 bridge 

7.7 neck 

OilCityPickups

stickyfiddle said:

FWIW I took reading of my other Gibsons while I had the multimeter out… 

SG - Gibson 57 Classic with Alnico 3

7.8 bridge 

7.75 neck

CS336 - OX4, alnico 4

7.8 bridge 

7.7 neck 

There you go :-)

blueskunk

You need OilCitys - Beano in the bridge and Riot act in the neck. 

Lebarque

nacnudnai said:

timmypix said:

Summoning the PAF hoarder and 335-owner himself @nacnudnai ;

Good timing of sorts, over the last few months I have installed probably about 20 different sets in my 335 .

As it turns out, I'm currently testing some Custombuckers in it - but mine are the old spec which were a higher wind (I think they changed to current spec in 2019...maybe?). They've always been Alnico 3, afaik. Custombuckers are nice, but not the best I've had in.

I have tried a fair few Alnico 4 sets, so I'll start with the better sets I tried. Sorry in advance for the stream of thought.

- OX4 Low wind worked well, were on the brighter and janglier side of things. Felt a bit brittle under gain.
- BKP Mule. Very nice, more low end and mids than the OX4 but still plenty of brightness. A bit hotter and probably handles gain well
- Montys Overspun. These are actually going in the 335 soon (haven't been in yet), but I have compared them directly to the Mules. In the same ballpark as the Mules, but a bit thicker and everso slightly rounder on the high end. If you wanted something that handled gain a bit better, but still had a nice middle position, these would be a good shout.
- Montys Underspun. This is A4 bridge and A5 neck. These are probably a lower wind than your Custombuckers, (6.1k neck, 6.9k bridge), but have a lovely jangly middle position. Very different to the Custombuckers, they are quite skinny on the low end and quite bright.
- Sunbear SB59PAF. A4 Bridge, A3 neck. I think one of the best bridge pickups I've tried in my 335 - plenty of balls, but bright and brash. Very close to the 335 sound I hear in my head. Neck pickup is excellent, but my only remark would be it didn't feel like a 335 neck pickup to me - whatever that means...
- Wizz A4 Premium Clone. I've always struggled with the neck pickup on this set, it is just missing something to me and can be slightly wooly (but isn't bassy). It worked better in the 335 than any Les Paul though. Bridge pickup is very nice, quite aggressive but also does the boxy thing.
- Brandwound 1959 Clone. My favourite in the 335 so far, hands down. Probably the darkest, relative to the above, but super clear in all positions. Has a woodiness and boxiness which really suits a 335 to me. Not easy to get your hands on though.

Other notable mentions of different magnet types.

- Oil City Riot Acts. Alnico 3 in both positions, these have worked brilliantly in every single guitar I've put them in. In a 335, they still sound like a 335. Lovely cleans, and in my opinion they handle gain just as well.
- Seymour Duncan Custom Shop MJ's Magicbuckers. Alnico 3. Stupidly expensive, but one of the best sets of anything I've ever tried. Everything I like in a PAF-alike.
- Gibson T-Types. Alnico 5. These work very well in a 335, and have a particularly nice middle position.
- Gibson 500T/496R. Ceramic/Alnico 5. Tried for a laugh, actually sounded really good.
- OX4 Rollin' Man. Alnico 5. Peter Green set, felt a bit too bright and plinky in my Les Pauls, but worked way better in a 335. Out of phase middle, so bear that in mind.

What no Monty's?

saltnpepper

I have a CS-356 and played a BB King Lucille for years.  I have had Bare Knuckle Stormy Mondays in both.  They work great for me, sweet and clear but fat enough when I need them to be.