Gibson Quality

guitargeek62

stickyfiddle said:

How many times will we go around this loop?

People who buy Gibsons need to accept that tops are hand sanded, binding is hand-scraped, finishes are hand-sprayed. 

People who want absolute cosmetic perfection should buy a PRS. 

Gibson has never been the company that puts out literal micron-level perfection and it never will be. 

Just to clarify, PRS also hand-sand* tops and hand-spray finishes... I don't consider that a good justification for sloppy work, particularly on the Gibson CS models which are more akin to PRS in terms of pricing and volume.



*Post initial CNC machining, exactly the same as Gibson's process in that respect.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqVTY0f_sG8

stickyfiddle

guitargeek62 said:

stickyfiddle said:

How many times will we go around this loop?

People who buy Gibsons need to accept that tops are hand sanded, binding is hand-scraped, finishes are hand-sprayed. 

People who want absolute cosmetic perfection should buy a PRS. 

Gibson has never been the company that puts out literal micron-level perfection and it never will be. 

Just to clarify, PRS also hand-sand* tops and hand-spray finishes... I don't consider that a good justification for sloppy work, particularly on the Gibson CS models which are more akin to PRS in terms of pricing and volume.



*Post initial CNC machining, exactly the same as Gibson's process in that respect.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqVTY0f_sG8

Haven’t watch the video but I’d wager PRS don’t use a ludicrous 1950s floppy belt sander for their tops… :P 

guitargeek62

stickyfiddle said:

guitargeek62 said:

stickyfiddle said:

How many times will we go around this loop?

People who buy Gibsons need to accept that tops are hand sanded, binding is hand-scraped, finishes are hand-sprayed. 

People who want absolute cosmetic perfection should buy a PRS. 

Gibson has never been the company that puts out literal micron-level perfection and it never will be. 

Just to clarify, PRS also hand-sand* tops and hand-spray finishes... I don't consider that a good justification for sloppy work, particularly on the Gibson CS models which are more akin to PRS in terms of pricing and volume.



*Post initial CNC machining, exactly the same as Gibson's process in that respect.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqVTY0f_sG8

Haven’t watch the video but I’d wager PRS don’t use a ludicrous 1950s floppy belt sander for their tops… :P 

Well no, because progress is a thing and now we have wonderful Mirka (and other) random orbital sanders that are far faster and more effective than those outdated things!!! There's a time & place for 'tradition', but 'that's the way we've always done it' is never acceptable in QC and continuous improvement.

*edit* there's actually still a lot of hand sanding with papers & blocks done on the PRS production line too btw, I'm not suggesting that power tools are the only option to reach a great level of finish.

PAL

As someone has said already this has already been discussed. You may remember about 12 years ago Gibson fired
 most of the Custom Shop luthiers and here was some doubt regarding if the Custom shop would survive !
 The Custom Shop did survive but there were changes probably less experienced lower paid luthiers but the more importantly
 the woods used were changed from Honduran to Fijian mahogany ! Now I know this is opening a can of worms as we all have
 our own opinions on wood but I feel there is a difference.
 There was a video on YouTube a couple of years ago and it was regarding a Custom Shop Les Paul that the buyer had 
 bought from Peach Guitars. I should point out this in no way reflects on Peach Guitars.
 Anyway the guitar had many issues and was returned !
 Phillip McKnight had a similar experience and I think the video is still on YouTube.
 There was a guy on "The Les Paul Forum" who had a problem with one of he more recent Custom Shop guitars. It was a 
 Machine head issue so he removed the tuner only to find the screws were loose and there was powdery wood dust behind the tuner ! I don't think Gibson are the only company who use this type of wood. A friend of mine had a similar issue with an
Eastman guitar not only that it was a double cut junior with a wrap over bridge and the posts were leaning forward possibly
due to the wood being used being soft !
Back to Gibson Custom Shop and Gibson in general I think the quality issue started when Gibson started using laminated
fingerboards around 2012 they never gave a reason for this but they made a of saying the guitars were more precise spec
wise regarding plastics and fillers etc. For many people who advocate vintage guitars are better due to the woods used at
the time then shouldn't we expect the bodies and next to be made of Honduran mahogany !
There are probably reasons like shortage and cost of Honduran mahogany and Gibson want a good profit margin !
My own opinion is if you are looking to buy a used Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul guitar try and find a pre 2012 guitar
you may have to pay a little bit more but on forums guitar players are saying there is a definite difference in sound.
Now on to the the Gibson standard range I bought a 2019 Gibson Original Series Les Paul junior and it wasn't perfect but
over all a good little guitar but the the thing is they launched them saying they had CTS pots. Orange drop caps etc.
I have had no issues with my junior but I decide to change the jack socket plate to a metal one and when fitting the plate
I noticed on the jack socket which should have been a switchcraft  it said " Made In China "  !
A friend of mine bought an SG guitar from the same series and within a week the volume pot failed !
I ordered a replacement CTS pot and fitted it and it was very apparent the pot that I fitted though they are not expensive
was a much higher quality unit so maybe there are lower level parts being made for Gibson at a lower cost level.
The thing is there are lots of guitars out there that better built from better woods and components than used by Gibson.
Guitarist are hung up on what is says on the headstock and what shape the headstock is so stick to the classical guitar
brands. Gibson is a business and needs to make good profits and reach targets so try and keep costs down this is normally
reflected in the cost of labour and parts. The results are shown in the video that has been posted.
I know I have gone on a bit and await the flake form people who disagree but this is just my thoughts and experiences.
I would suggest watching the one of the PRS YouTube videos in it you will see the attention to detail they put into their guitars.
It takes them 30 days just to make a neck for their core line guitars !
I think the current SE range of guitars have a higher standard of refinishing and play better than a lot of guitars.
As I have said there are many guitar builders out there making really good alternatives to Gibson & Fender but until us
guitarists show we expect a certain level of build and quality for our money and move to companies that do it better
they will jus carry on with what they are doing and think they are doing it well !  Thanks for your time sorry for the rant !
 

idiotwindow

SteveRobinson said:

Can't be bothered watching/listening to all that guff. Wouldn't it be more accessible to post a dozen pictures, each with a paragraph of text?

This goes for the vast majority of YouTube videos.

Yes, agreed. I couldn't get past about 3 minutes before I looked at how long the video was going to be (28 minutes!) and gave up at that point. It's just not very interesting.

stonevibe

Just buy a Japanese made guitar

PPPMAT

I've just been through this dilemma myself in buying a CS 335. When you compare a Gibson to a PRS there is no real comparison in terms of quality and there is a difference in each Gibson you see. The biggest problem (particularly with 335's) is nothing I have ever tried has come close to sounding like one so if you want 'that' sound then you need to get a Gibson and accept that its very much a hand finished product. 

For balance, my 335 is actually very good - not flawless but very good.

Matt

Philly_Q

SteveRobinson said:

Can't be bothered watching/listening to all that guff. Wouldn't it be more accessible to post a dozen pictures, each with a paragraph of text?

This goes for the vast majority of YouTube videos.

Well I guess replacing YouTube with a web page is an option, but at the moment it is based on video content.  Bring back MySpace!

guitargeek62

@PPPMAT   In spite of my criticisms of Gibson's processes and QC I also bought a CS 335 recently too. I don't agree that there's no other option out there for getting that sound or feel, but I did want the label and accepted the trade-off as a result.  Thankfully, I was able to choose between three examples of the particular model and finish that I was interested in, and one of them really ticked my boxes and doesn't have any obvious flaws either so I'm pretty content with that.

SteveRobinson

Philly_Q said:

SteveRobinson said:

Can't be bothered watching/listening to all that guff. Wouldn't it be more accessible to post a dozen pictures, each with a paragraph of text?

This goes for the vast majority of YouTube videos.

Well I guess replacing YouTube with a web page is an option, but at the moment it is based on video content.  Bring back MySpace!

YouTube is great for e.g. concert footage or a guitar lesson but when you are just pointing out faults on your guitar there are better ways of getting that information across.

Offset

I watched the video from start to finish.  It seems popular to put the boot into Gibson; I've never bothered because despite having one (no major issues), they're really not my bag.

However - that goldtop is a shocker.  Both the finishing issues and the absence of QC are dreadful.  I must admit I'm equally surprised that the reviewer only found the issues which caused him to send the guitar back to Gibson after he'd got it home.  And that was the sixth one he tried!  The others must have been truly dreadful.

It really isn't a good look and when you consider the price point, it's unforgivable.

BillDL

For those that prefer the immediacy of photos without having to listen to the dialogue in between explaining what the video footage shows anyway, here's screenshots of the areas discussed in the video.

notsopro

I'm not going to defend Gibson on this one, as from the photo's shown in the video it's not a good look... however....

call me cynical, but a guy makes his 3rd video in 4 years, and it's a 'look at the terrible quality of this mega well known brand', suddenly that video in less than a week gets 20x the hits as his previous one has in a year. Then at the end of the video 'hey head over to my website and buy an 'x'". I know it's 2024 and this is a thing, but I really don't like it myself. 

BillDL

BillDL

Musicman20

Those QC issues just show a disregard for care and attention, a lack of skill and quite frankly, a rushed shi*** job. 

I will probably never buy a new Gibson again. I have two that are mostly perfect, and were WAY cheaper new than current model.

These awful QC slips should have made it a b stock at least, and staff trained/warned/let go, 

Offset

^^ Shows the issues more clearly than the video.  And it looks even worse.

Slightly worried that there appears to be a ringworm in the clear coat over the binding...

BillDL

Sorry @notsopro. Your comment ended up buried between the posts containing the screenshots.  Just bringing it to the end of them so people see it.

notsopro said:

I'm not going to defend Gibson on this one, as from the photo's shown in the video it's not a good look... however....

call me cynical, but a guy makes his 3rd video in 4 years, and it's a 'look at the terrible quality of this mega well known brand', suddenly that video in less than a week gets 20x the hits as his previous one has in a year. Then at the end of the video 'hey head over to my website and buy an 'x'". I know it's 2024 and this is a thing, but I really don't like it myself. 

JezWynd

The photos are so bad it makes me wonder if it's a return and the original purchaser put a Chibson in the box.

swiller

JezWynd said:

The photos are so bad it makes me wonder if it's a return and the original purchaser put a Chibson in the box.

this^^ or someone has a side hustle at the warehouse, would explain non CTS pots etc from others comments.