Gretsch, Epiphone or Ibanez Semi Hollow

OilCityPickups · April 8

My other long since sold AF75

TheMarlin · April 8

Strumit said:

OilCityPickups said:

Well largely because they are a long way from being a Gretsch in design You can get closer to a Gretsch sound with a second hand Ibanez Artcore and a pickup swap.

BillDL said:

Strumit said:

I've been looking at hollow/semi-hollow offerings .... Should I just get a Harley Benton BigTone?

There's quite a difference in feel, sound and playability between a FULLY hollow electric like the Harley Benton Bigtone and SEMI-hollow (semi-acoustic) electric guitar, so it really depends what you are looking for.

A hollow body guitar like the Harley Benton Bigtone has a "floating" i.e. moveable wooden bridge that sits on top of the soundboard and has bass and treble height adjustment and intonation adjustment on the individual saddles. They usually employ a "trapeze" tailpiece that's fixed to the bottom rim of the guitar. The bridge is really just a Tune-o-Matic bridge screwed into a wooden base that's shaped to fit to the contour of the top, but the bridge isn't fixed to the top. Older hollow body electrics had wooden bridge base and saddle, and the wooden saddle was carved out in steps to help with intonation. This can present problems when buying a new guitar that isn't set up, and subsequently if you bump the bridge out of place. You have to adjust the position of it (usually angled) and then tinker with the saddles to get good intonation. The Harley Benton one with the Bigsby style trem/vibrato tailpiece is very obviously a Gretsch copy and has roller saddles on the bridge that helps tuning stability, but the bridge is still a "floating" one that isn't fixed in place to the top.

On a semi-acoustic guitar there is a block of wood running down the centre of the body and the only hollow parts are the wings either side of it. The bridge is secured directly into the wooden centre block just as with a solid bodied guitar. They can have trapeze tailpieces secured to the rim, various styles of trem/vibrato tailpiece assemblies, or traditional stop-bar ones screwed into the centre block. The bodies are normally a lot thinner than the deeper and chunkier fully hollow electrics, but are large in surface area and some people find the overall size of the body area to be unwieldy. The vast majority of semi-acoustic electrics are based in one way or another on the Gibson 335 style, and some of the slightly smaller bodied ones on the 339.

I don't want to imply that you need a specific style and design of guitar to play a specific type of music, because there are very notable players that have effortlessly crossed those boundaries successfully, however a semi-acoustic guitar tends to feel and sound more like a solid body guitar than a deeper bodied fully hollow one that tends to feel and sound a bit like the old acoustic archtop guitars they are based on. A lot of this is to do with the types of pickups specifically chosen to bring out the best of each different style of guitar's inherent qualities. You would have to listen to examples to know what I mean, and I don't want to start using adjectives like jazzy, mellow and warm, or throaty, singing and sweet.

Your decision should firstly be whether a hollowbody or semi-hollow is the type of sound and playability that you are after. Budget will then dictate makes and models.

If you eventually decide that a semi-acoustic guitar suits your needs better than a jazzy / rockabilly type hollowbody, then I can wholeheartedly recommend the Vintage VSA500 Reissued (previously mentioned by @guitarjack66) at the lower end of the price scale (if you are OK with the slight departure in body shape from all the other Gibson 335 clones), or an Ibanez Artcore AS model like the AS-73 or AS-93 higher up the price tree. Higher up in price than that are the Ibanez "AS Artstar" guitars that are truly exceptional instruments. Semi-hollow guitars are a good bit more complex to manufacture, so you generally have to pay more for one than for an equivalent quality solidbody guitar, for example a semi-acoustic that sells for £400 will generally have more cost compromises made with the hardware and electrics than a solid body one that sells for the same price, and in some cases even the build quality.

If your budget is limited, then there are a lot of Gibson 335 copies of varying quality that tend to have "35" in the model name around the £180 to £250 mark, for example the Harley Benton HB-35 and HB-35 Plus. Those guitars, especially the "own brand" ones like GuitarGuitar / Andertons East Coast G35 and similar offerings usually represent good value for money, but if you really want a slightly more "luxurious" semi-acoustic while still being budget-conscious, you should really be looking at guitars above £350.

This probably won't help your dilemma and may even have thrown in more things to consider and complicate the range of choices.

OilCityPickups
But then you aren't likely to be using them for playing Metallica. But then again I've gigged fully hollow bodies for rock/metal... back in my teens I gigged a Hofner President ... with DiMarzio Super Distortion pickups shoe-horned in and all fed through a Marshall 100w stack. You just had to ride the volume knob and watch where you stood on stage - yes I was influenced by Ted Nugent ... but coping with feedback and using it musically is a handy skill to learn.
Oh and Brian Setzer plays fully hollow Gretsch guitars at pretty high volumes ...

stufisher said:

I've got a Gretsch Electronic fitted with Brian Setzer signature set filtertrons and pro-setup. It's a really solid, well made guitar and with above mods it sounds fantastic.

I've also got a sunburst Ibanez AM93 Artcore Expressionist which is also very well made IMHO. It has upgraded gold hardware, locking tuners and Suhr pickups so it sounds as good as it looks.

I've no probs at all trying out HB guitars at all but the above are the only two hollowbodies I've owned and they are both keepers ... I don't want for anything more and I can recommend without hesitation.

I bought both second-hand and got them tweaked, which I think is better VFM.

All great suggestions and advice there. I've seen an Ibanez locally (AF75TGD Artcore) that looks lovely. Not sure about the pickups, so I may need to check what they are. Thanks for the time you have taken to respond. It is much appreciated, Mike

Stock pickups on those are great, . I’ve had a few. I upgraded one to Oil City Dynasonics, sounded even better! But stock pickup are plenty good

mikem8634 · April 8

I'll add my shout to the quality of the Ibanez Artcore line. And also mention Epiphone Sheratons, although I have found their humbuckers a little muddy at times. However, once I upgraded to Gibson classic 57's and I new wiring harness on a really nice tobacco sunburst model, it was excellent.

Still, the best semi acoustic I ever had was an Ibanez as50 from the eighties.

MikeP · April 9

I play my vintage starfire ii only at home, I love it but I was just commenting that it feeds back a lot easier so something to take into consideration. The unpotted microphonic pickups aren't helping me neither but the thing sounds so good!...

Strumit · April 9

I've provisionally bought an Ibanez Artcore (subject to final viewing!) Thanks to all here for their input, knowledge, time, experience and comments which are all much appreciated. Hopefully the purchase will go smoothly and pics will follow, then no doubt my "modding " bug will bite and as Arnie says "I'll be back!" - for more!

OilCityPickups · April 9

Strumit said:

I've provisionally bought an Ibanez Artcore (subject to final viewing!) Thanks to all here for their input, knowledge, time, experience and comments which are all much appreciated. Hopefully the purchase will go smoothly and pics will follow, then no doubt my "modding " bug will bite and as Arnie says "I'll be back!" - for more!

Good on you mate ... I loved both my Artcores :-)

TheMarlin · April 9

Strumit said:

I've provisionally bought an Ibanez Artcore (subject to final viewing!) Thanks to all here for their input, knowledge, time, experience and comments which are all much appreciated. Hopefully the purchase will go smoothly and pics will follow, then no doubt my "modding " bug will bite and as Arnie says "I'll be back!" - for more!

Which Artcore? The AF75T is a big favourite, and punches way above it's price point.

Strumit · April 9

TheMarlin said:

Strumit said:

I've provisionally bought an Ibanez Artcore (subject to final viewing!) Thanks to all here for their input, knowledge, time, experience and comments which are all much appreciated. Hopefully the purchase will go smoothly and pics will follow, then no doubt my "modding " bug will bite and as Arnie says "I'll be back!" - for more!

Which Artcore? The AF75T is a big favourite, and punches way above it's price point.

The AF75TGD Artcore. Should be able to pick it up Thursday all being well.

TheMarlin · April 9

Excellent. Congrats

mikem8634 · April 9

Nice

stufisher · April 9

Well done @Strumit ... good choice. I haven't played one but I've just read up on them and I'm sure it'll impress.

Just to reiterate ... the best thing I did with my Artcore was to get it set up perfectly for me. Even my guitar tech said it is a lovely guitar, with a beautiful sound ... and he deals with hundreds of guitars.

Best to you.

Strumit · April 9

stufisher said:

Well done @Strumit ... good choice. I haven't played one but I've just read up on them and I'm sure it'll impress.

Just to reiterate ... the best thing I did with my Artcore was to get it set up perfectly for me. Even my guitar tech said it is a lovely guitar, with a beautiful sound ... and he deals with hundreds of guitars.

Best to you.

I have a Design and Tech degree, so usually do my own, now that I have "learned the ropes" on my previous "bitsas"! I bought plenty of tools and measuring devices, so have "all the gear and some idea" now! I recently got two guitars to make one good one and surprised myself with ending up with two good ones! I sold one on to finance the next project and so it goes on! I did the same with watchmaking in my younger years but old eyes and slightly shaky hands doth not a good watch make! I progressed backwards from wristwatches, to pocketwatches and then clocks! I can still manage guitars, even though some of the small screws and soldering, require a lot more breath holding, than they used to. One previous chronograph has paid for my new addition!

OilCityPickups · April 9

Strumit said:

stufisher said:

Well done @Strumit ... good choice. I haven't played one but I've just read up on them and I'm sure it'll impress.

Just to reiterate ... the best thing I did with my Artcore was to get it set up perfectly for me. Even my guitar tech said it is a lovely guitar, with a beautiful sound ... and he deals with hundreds of guitars.

Best to you.

I have a Design and Tech degree, so usually do my own, now that I have "learned the ropes" on my previous "bitsas"! I bought plenty of tools and measuring devices, so have "all the gear and some idea" now! I recently got two guitars to make one good one and surprised myself with ending up with two good ones! I sold one on to finance the next project and so it goes on! I did the same with watchmaking in my younger years but old eyes and slightly shaky hands doth not a good watch make! I progressed backwards from wristwatches, to pocketwatches and then clocks! I can still manage guitars, even though some of the small screws and soldering, require a lot more breath holding, than they used to. One previous chronograph has paid for my new addition!

Excellent :-)
Out of my two Artcores one had badly sticking rollers in the bridge and didn't hold tune particularly well with the Bigsby clone. I fitted a roller bridge from Northwest Guitars and that sorted it.
The pickups are quite okay ... perhaps a little high output for my own tastes, but smooth enough and quite sweet. Both of my Artcores came immaculately set up out of the box - you will need at lest 10s string wise to make the Bigsby work. I wound up using 10-52 DiAddarios.

Strumit · April 9

OilCityPickups said:

Strumit said:

stufisher said:

Well done @Strumit ... good choice. I haven't played one but I've just read up on them and I'm sure it'll impress.

Just to reiterate ... the best thing I did with my Artcore was to get it set up perfectly for me. Even my guitar tech said it is a lovely guitar, with a beautiful sound ... and he deals with hundreds of guitars.

Best to you.

I have a Design and Tech degree, so usually do my own, now that I have "learned the ropes" on my previous "bitsas"! I bought plenty of tools and measuring devices, so have "all the gear and some idea" now! I recently got two guitars to make one good one and surprised myself with ending up with two good ones! I sold one on to finance the next project and so it goes on! I did the same with watchmaking in my younger years but old eyes and slightly shaky hands doth not a good watch make! I progressed backwards from wristwatches, to pocketwatches and then clocks! I can still manage guitars, even though some of the small screws and soldering, require a lot more breath holding, than they used to. One previous chronograph has paid for my new addition!

Excellent :-)
Out of my two Artcores one had badly sticking rollers in the bridge and didn't hold tune particularly well with the Bigsby clone. I fitted a roller bridge from Northwest Guitars and that sorted it.
The pickups are quite okay ... perhaps a little high output for my own tastes, but smooth enough and quite sweet. Both of my Artcores came immaculately set up out of the box - you will need at lest 10s string wise to make the Bigsby work. I wound up using 10-52 DiAddarios.

I think that it has 12s on at the moment. I tried 12/56s on one of my guitars to get the "Shadows" sound and it sounded great but was a pig to bend! Thanks for the info.

OilCityPickups · April 9

Strumit said:

OilCityPickups said:

Strumit said:

stufisher said:

Well done @Strumit ... good choice. I haven't played one but I've just read up on them and I'm sure it'll impress.

Just to reiterate ... the best thing I did with my Artcore was to get it set up perfectly for me. Even my guitar tech said it is a lovely guitar, with a beautiful sound ... and he deals with hundreds of guitars.

Best to you.

I have a Design and Tech degree, so usually do my own, now that I have "learned the ropes" on my previous "bitsas"! I bought plenty of tools and measuring devices, so have "all the gear and some idea" now! I recently got two guitars to make one good one and surprised myself with ending up with two good ones! I sold one on to finance the next project and so it goes on! I did the same with watchmaking in my younger years but old eyes and slightly shaky hands doth not a good watch make! I progressed backwards from wristwatches, to pocketwatches and then clocks! I can still manage guitars, even though some of the small screws and soldering, require a lot more breath holding, than they used to. One previous chronograph has paid for my new addition!

Excellent :-)
Out of my two Artcores one had badly sticking rollers in the bridge and didn't hold tune particularly well with the Bigsby clone. I fitted a roller bridge from Northwest Guitars and that sorted it.
The pickups are quite okay ... perhaps a little high output for my own tastes, but smooth enough and quite sweet. Both of my Artcores came immaculately set up out of the box - you will need at lest 10s string wise to make the Bigsby work. I wound up using 10-52 DiAddarios.

I think that it has 12s on at the moment. I tried 12/56s on one of my guitars to get the "Shadows" sound and it sounded great but was a pig to bend! Thanks for the info.

Jeez ... not much short of the strings I have on my 7 string tuned down a tone! I'd deffo go 10s or at the most 11s life's too short to go losing bits of finger just for shits and giggles.

maltingsaudio · April 9

Very, if not too late to the party , but surprised no one has mentioned the Yamaha SA range yet.
Mrs M has an awesome SA50 from the 60’s . Prices are still sensible for the vintage ones, about the same for the new ones!

Dave_Mc · April 9

OilCityPickups said:
Indeed, any Semi usually that has a wooden based bridge that will therefore be higher (to go with strings higher above the body) wan't want a roller. You can of course take the roller off - or string over the top of the roller so that it isn't in use ... but it still speaks to me of poor attention to detail in design.

Some bridges are designed to 'rock' with a trem ... most aren't, and the one fitted to the Harley Benton Big Tone isn't designed to!
When I was looking at semi acoustics I was tempted by the Big Tone too ... but decided there were just too many upgrades I'd need to do to make it 'top notch' that I'd might as well by something closer to 'good'. I think the Gretsch Streamliner range are a lot better ... I tried the 2420T before settling on the Electromatic 5420T. Really the only pickups and pickup mountings put me off the Streamliner - and at around 500 quid they are very good value. Second hand ones can be had for around 300 ... so not much more than a Big Tone ... but with a proper trem and bridge.

You pay for the 'prettier' bound f holes, more traditional inlays, G branded knobs and of course Blacktop Filtertrons with the Electromatic.

Excellent, thanks for that Ash

I agree about the upgrades... some cheaper guitars can be made amazing with minor upgrades (or if you're very lucky don't need any at all), but it definitely becomes a false economy if you have to buy too many expensive upgrades.

EDIT: Wow that Ibanez you used to own looks awesome! Not sure I've ever seen a cream front with (I think) a natural back before, but it works really well.

Strumit · April 12

Here is the Ibanez that I picked up:-

[img]https://i.imgur.com/xCN4JxK.jpg[/img]

OilCityPickups · April 12

Strumit said:

Here is the Ibanez that I picked up:-
[img]https://i.imgur.com/xCN4JxK.jpg[/img]

Oh that's a nice burst! Lovin the torti guard too :-)

Dave_Mc · April 12

Strumit said:

Here is the Ibanez that I picked up:-
[img]https://i.imgur.com/xCN4JxK.jpg[/img]

Excellent, well done!

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