Re-fretting - How long did it take you to get confident, and what tools do you like

guitarfishbay

Hi all,

I've been doing my own fret levelling for a while now and I'm pretty confident I can get my own guitars playing how I like.

The next logical step is to try re-fretting.

I do have spare necks already, plus the tools needed to level and crown, but I don't have any tools to pull, bend, trim etc frets.

So my questions are:

1.  How long did it take you to feel confident with re-fretting?  For the immediate future I'd just be working on Fender style necks with no binding etc, rosewood or satin maple.

2.  What tools do you use and what do you think of them?

Thanks!

Roland

1. The first one worked. I do t know whether that was luck, or years of doing thing with my hands.

2. Before buying any tools read this: https://www.tdpri.com/threads/fret-leveling-yer-tele-101.201556/

For removing frets buy a cheap pair of End Nippers, cheaper the better, and file the top end flat so that there’s no bevel on either cutting edge. This means they’ll fit under the old frets. A grinding wheel is very useful for this. For cutting fretwire you need Side Cutters. Get a good pair so that they cut well. Then you will need a soft hammer. Chris Alsop does a set with all three: https://www.chrisalsopguitar.co.uk/shop/guitar-tools/fret-pullers-and-fret-cutters?product_id=202

Don't bother to bend fret wire. Buy a length from a coil and it will already be bent to shape.

You will also need a fret levelling file to level the frets (I use a mill file), a fret crowning file to re-profile frets after levelling, and an edge file (I use the mill file again). A fret rocker is also useful.

For polishing frets you need a range of fine emery papers. It’s not worth buying complete sheets unless you are doing multiple guitars a month. Chris Alsop will sell you a set of strips, but he also sends a selection free with the crowning file. I use Chris for specialist tools, and Screwfix for cheap, common ones.

guitarfishbay

Thanks Roland! 

Interesting about the bending, does that apply to all radius in your experience? 

I’m mostly going to do 9.5” atm, I have one 12” that I’d be tempted to put huge frets on if I feel confident with it

Roland

Last place I bought fret wire was from ToneTech, whilst they were independent, and located in Stockport. It arrived coiled in a box about 15” square, which would be 7.5” radius. 

paulnb57

Ive done three now, with limited tools and all came out as good as factory.
You can buy fret wire as a roll or already cut, they are likely to be radiused. Folk will cringe, I did my first with pre cut frets, adjusted the truss rod so the neck was straight, then used a sanding block to tidy up the naked fret board after removing the frets with modded cheap pincers (as above) tapped them  in with a claw hammer, yes really, and a smear of PVA in the fret slot, l cleaned up as I went, I used the cutter part of a pair of pliers to trim off as much fret overhang as I could, then used a flat file to level the tops and along the edges, using pliers to cut the frets just meant more filing. I then used a radius file to recrown, then one of those metal slotted protectors to work through wet n dry (dry) grits  to finish the tops of the frets….
A small needle file with a safe edge to radius the fret ends.
Finished the whole thing off with a polishing wheel in the Dremel, with the fretboard masked and Solvol as the polish

Its as good as any mass produced neck Ive ever had

The most difficult thing was working up the bottle to have a go…..

I was amazed how easy it was…..but then fretted instruments have bee made for donkeys years with limited tools, a lot of the “specialised” tools on offer are nice to have but not necessary

Readers will be pleased to know I now have a much more appropriate hammer,  but I still use the pliers to cut the excess off

Have a go!

guitarfishbay

Thanks Paul.

Yes definitely, building the confidence has been the main reason I've not tried yet, so hearing success stories is definitely helpful!

GSPBASSES

If you're going to buy a pair of end snips have a look at these in the link below. I purchased the pair of these about 15 years ago they're still going strong. You will need to have the jaw ground to give you a true flush cut. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164461045264?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-153316-527457-8&mkcid=2&itemid=164461045264&targetid=4585375812880036&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=554609235&mkgroupid=1308419941753388&rlsatarget=pla-4585375812880036&abcId=9320693&merchantid=87779&msclkid=b598850c35211cc03c34e31513ee9388 

OR

https://www.amazon.co.uk/68-01-200-EAN-atramentized/dp/B00GA2BGDM/ref=sr_1_15?crid=1MQL48NNMQCMR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.GsNCRIQP1lvwZcjZN9_CGAceDiW9F3VAbkQ-3py4LbphuI1hR05LOr3ctmABCuHF8E0i_OLb-D7wRE6PyQocP_t8UWg9Jd04MHEJmHDC1BZlbprEN-CpAza2gO-gaddRyQFlHhyMw6bfDuCcy1R_4y4-Fn8KgBLQXjuFhEK0pi8L-KT4-FGtcMThSo4zuXGf3UHJZ0XKUSllF837GXlUMyiKUrj8mJBH6b3lvmUv7c_oPqYJgiPtect-ftcTOn5ywkBEiZ-vLoItHMlYb0x5pgJ1nH9_FhgB_0gbhdpYqmY.X591wrMUot5YCW4XFczUVn2AlcsTZ5bjFtUtbYpCZmM&dib_tag=se&keywords=end%2Bcutter%2Bsnips&qid=1712924566&sprefix=end%2Bsnips%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-15&th=1

BillDL

I too did my first half a dozen or so refrets using general purpose tools I already had and some improvised tools.  Some I have seen no need to change for bespoke tools.

• Standard small end cutters with the face of the jaws ground almost flat for fret pulling.
• A very old brass or bronze headed tack hammer with a circle of very hard leather glued to the face.  I now have a nylon-faced fret hammer with various hardnesses of screw-in faces and one copper face.
  
• Metal spirit level with fine carborundum paper stuck to it with double-sided tape for levelling.  I now have a rectangular hollow steel beam.
  
• Side cutters with that double hinge mechanism that multiplies the cutting pressure from that exerted with your hand for cutting off the frets.
• A fine mill file with the tang / handle ground off and the edges rounded over and made smooth on a grindstone for localised levelling and filing off and beveling the fret ends.
• A thin square needle file for filing the fret ends vertically to remove protruding sharp tangs.
  
• A fairly thick triangular file (corners ground smooth as safe edges) and a triangular "slipstone" for recrowning.  I made my own fretboard protectors from thin flexible slippery plastic so I could run the sharp corner of the slipstone across the board at various angles without it filing into the board.  I now use Chris Alsop crowning files.
  
• Two piece of hardwood about 6mm thick. I filed a rounded V shape into the edge of one and wrapped fine (eg. P400 or 600) wet & dry paper to help get a consistent crown back, and another with a rounded U shaped trough to be used with very fine wet & dry for polishing.  My first attempts at crowning with the triangular file and slipstone weren't great and these improvised crowning and polishing "files" achieved a much better result where all I then needed was fine steel wool to polish the frets.  I now use abrasive pads and fret erasers.
  

I can offer some tips:

Don't try to pull out the frets vertically.  Use the lifting action of the inside bevel on the jaws to lever up the frets while you press the face of the jaws down onto the fretboard either side of the fret, and work slowly across the fret allowing the nippers to do the work.  You can buy these stainless steel protectors that work well:

https://www.gluedtomusic.com/products/2823/elmer-guitar-fretboard-chip-stopper/

Make sure the fret slots are free from debris and deep enough, especially right in at the edge of binding.  A very fine scraper can be made by completely flattening the set (offset teeth) of a junior hacksaw blade, snapping it so that that you have a pointy tooth at the end, and tapping out any bend in the end where you snapped it.

I've nearly always used a coil of fretwire for refrets and just hammered it in and snipped it off rather than buying precut frets or cutting them frets to length from the coil first.  Those first jobs were on unbound fretboards.  When cutting off the wire with end cutters, cut from the top and push down slightly while snipping off to avoid the fret ends being lifted up out of the slots.  When doing bound fretboards and you need to cut out the tangs from either side where the wire overlaps the binding, a de-tanging tool can speed things up, but it is possible with a lot of patience to snip out the bulk of the tang with small end or side cutters and then file out the last ridge of tang with a fine file.  If you are doing that work in advance so you have all the frets ready, get a block of wood and drill 21 to 24 holes in it, number the holes with a felt-tip pen, and drop each fret into the corresponding hole as you go.

Have a box of elastoplasts close to hand.

When hammering in frets the neck will bounce.  I realised this straight off, so I got an old "yorkie" checked long sleeved shirt, cut the sleeve off, filled it with fine sand, and used that as a support under the neck to absorb the blows and mitigate recoil. I now use a small double walled fabric sack filled with beads or something (used by telecom engineers for pinning down cables when doing long runs and working alone).

It can be pretty noisy hammering in frets, so put in ear plugs.  It takes a good few frets before you get the feel for how hard you need to tap / smack / thwack / bonk them in.  Some people start at one end and work across, while others tap in both sides half way and then start tapping down the arch of the fretwire from either side so that the barbs of the tang are pushed into the wood as the fretwire flattens.  I just work my way across from the far side towards me.

If you have a pillar drill / drill press I would definitely consider buying fret pressing cauls and a neck support.  I used one once at the home of somebody I know and it is very easy to get consistent results.  It's also a lot quieter

DartmoorHedgehog

I've not done a "re-fret" as such so I can't comment on removing old frets, but I have fretted a couple of instruments I've made.  One was a guitar with normal fretwire and I was lucky enough to be able to borrow tools I didn't have (a little roller thing for curving the frets and a posh Stewmac crowning file) from a mate. I pressed my frets in with a vice and a couple of blocks of wood, then tapped any stubborn parts down with a hammer.  Leveling I just did with a long carborundum stone, but I think that's generally frowned upon - metal bar with a strip of abrasive paper is probably better.

I think the thing that made the job much easier for me was the crowning file.  It can be done with a normal file, but this made it extremely easy to get a nice crown on the frets with minimum skill (useful when I hadn't done it before).  Ridiculously expensive though unless you're going to be doing it a lot (or can borrow one like I did).

The other instrument I fretted was a mandolin with "brass" (don't know if they're actually brass) frets that were much easier to work so I just did that with my normal hand tools.

One tool I did buy was a decent flush side cutter - saved a lot of filing of fret ends when I could cut them right up against the neck.

TTony

BillDL said:

If you have a pillar drill / drill press I would definitely consider buying fret pressing cauls and a neck support.  I used one once at the home of somebody I know and it is very easy to get consistent results.  It's also a lot quieter

I bought a cheapo Aldi drill press/stand for this specific purpose - a £5 bargain many years ago.

Not sure that I'd trust it to hold a drill securely and vertically, but it holds the fret caul quite easily and is a lot easier than hammering them in.

BillDL

DartmoorHedgehog said:

..... Leveling I just did with a long carborundum stone, but I think that's generally frowned upon - metal bar with a strip of abrasive paper is probably better. .....

You used to hear guitar repair technicians and luthiers referring to levelling as "stoning" for this very reason.  It's the sharp ends of a carborundum stone that make it awkward.  A long "beam" means you are covering many more frets in each pass and it's a lot easier to catch the high frets and maintain a consistency with the radius.