Which Combo Has Best Design/Reliability?

Bellycaster

Marshall DSL20/40CR or Fender Bassbreaker 30r.

I like both, although they don't sound alike, they look and sound great and are both cathode bias. DSL seems to have a speaker that most reviews seem to dislike. What replacement: Greenback, Creamback, G12H. WSG equivalents seem better for price. What's the consensus on these?

DSL 20 Headroom for Pubs/Small clubs? My Laney 20 seems to cut it.

Thanks.

noisepolluter

Not played the Bassbreaker. 

I put a Creamback H75 in my DSL40CR - improved it so much it actually displaced a JVM combo I owned at the same time because it then sounded better than the JVM for everything short of ultra high gain. 

The two best modes on the DSL40CR - crunch and OD1 - are ones that you don’t get on the DSL 20, and for that reason alone I’d go for the 40 unless you really need the small head format. The dual master volume on the DSL40 is also excellent, and if you splash out on the 6 button footswitch it’s even better. 

Edit: DSL40 isn’t cathode bias, but the bias points are on the underneath of the chassis so you just need to take the back wood panel off and there’s no need to expose the zappy high voltage bits, biasing is really quick and easy.

Bellycaster

noisepolluter said:

Not played the Bassbreaker. 

I put a Creamback H75 in my DSL40CR - improved it so much it actually displaced a JVM combo I owned at the same time because it then sounded better than the JVM for everything short of ultra high gain. 

The two best modes on the DSL40CR - crunch and OD1 - are ones that you don’t get on the DSL 20, and for that reason alone I’d go for the 40 unless you really need the small head format. The dual master volume on the DSL40 is also excellent, and if you splash out on the 6 button footswitch it’s even better. 

Edit: DSL40 isn’t cathode bias, but the bias points are on the underneath of the chassis so you just need to take the back wood panel off and there’s no need to expose the zappy high voltage bits, biasing is really quick and easy.

It's general consensus reading on Google that the Bassbreakers are a nightmare to work on should anything go wrong beyond replacing a valve. Some say that techs have refused to work on them. That pissed on my chips, then as I really liked them.

I'd be fine with a DSL 20, I think. I'd set the first chaneel to edge of break up and then the second channel to a heavy rock setting (Thin Lizzy, AC/DC), not to a massive gain level. I've got some good drives to use from pedals. That speaker ain't popular it seems.

Littlejonny

I hear the DSL40 sounds much better than the 20

fastonebaz

I like my DSL40, swapped out the speaker for a Celestion-G12-Neo Creamback-60-16 ohm which improved it no end .  I use clean and OD1 with an OD pedal for even more drive when I need it.  I get all the tonez  I need from it.

Reverb is pathetic though, almost non existent.

ICBM

Bellycaster said:

I'd be fine with a DSL 20, I think. I'd set the first chaneel to edge of break up and then the second channel to a heavy rock setting (Thin Lizzy, AC/DC), not to a massive gain level. I've got some good drives to use from pedals. That speaker ain't popular it seems.

With my friend’s one we carefully compared the stock Seventy/80 and a Creamback Neo by putting them both in a 2x12” cab so we could quickly switch between them and eliminate the cabinet as a variable. The Creamback was significantly better-sounding, although interestingly more so on clean and edge-of-distortion sounds than full-on high gain - although still better for high gain too.

The DSL40 has a V-Type, which I don’t like either but certainly has more fans than the Seventy/80.

snowblind

I had the bassbreaker 18/30 for a while. Not totally hideous to work on but not exactly a pleasure either. Internal component quality is not great and there are some questionable design choices in the board. Unless you really want one of these things (I also wasn't a fan of the speakers) I would steer clear. It is not quite a Fender and not quite a Marshall sound-wise but it seemed to be trying to be both. Suffers from the usual Fenderitis ie the volume is nothing, nothing, move it another micron and your ears are bleeding. You can mitigate this to some extent by swapping V1 for a 12AY7 but otherwise there is some work to be done to get a decent progressive taper on the volume. All that said there are some bargains to be had with the bassbreaker range so if you have the time and a bit of money and skill available there is probably an ok amp in there somewhere.

The Laney VC30 that I replaced the 18/30 with is a much better amp all round.

Dave_Mc

Not sure I'd say WGS speakers are better for the price... I've only tried the ET65, and while I don't hate it, I think I prefer Celestions. Admittedly- I've never tried the G12-65, so it may just be I don't like that specific style of speaker! But I'll echo what I said elsewhere recently about gear recommendations- who's saying the WGS are better for the price, and maybe more importantly, where are they from? If they're American, there's a fair chance that WGS are indeed noticeably cheaper, and there also may be a little bit of jingoism in there too considering they're made/assembled in the USA...

ICBM

The only WGS I’ve tried is the Veteran 30, and it’s hands down one of the worst speakers I’ve ever heard… horrible congested nasal whiny midrange. I think I’d honestly rather have a Rocket 50, it’s at least light.

monquixote

ICBM said:

The only WGS I’ve tried is the Veteran 30, and it’s hands down one of the worst speakers I’ve ever heard… horrible congested nasal whiny midrange. I think I’d honestly rather have a Rocket 50, it’s at least light.

I've only tried one WGS and I didn't like it.

I love the DSL 40 it has a better speaker than the 20 plus 4, channels and MIDI.

It's a superb amp for the money.

noisepolluter

monquixote said:

I love the DSL 40 it has a better speaker than the 20 plus 4, channels and MIDI.

It's a superb amp for the money.

I keep on meaning to sit down and suss out controlling it with my GX-100. I need an actual MIDI cable, right? 

Yorkie

I like the looks of the Bassbreakers. It's the controls that put me off. Limited for home use in my opinion. Ties you to a pedalboard, which you might not like. 

I am a DSL40 advocate. Lots of sounds without pedals, good cleans, a touch of reverb (won't go any further than that, mind you!), polite at home, unruly in the pub. I have the old one (40C) with a Creamback; minimal digital sorcery, great analogue sound, classic Marshall looks. I even bought a Marshall hat so I don't miss the amp too much when I'm away. 

monquixote

noisepolluter said:

monquixote said:

I love the DSL 40 it has a better speaker than the 20 plus 4, channels and MIDI.

It's a superb amp for the money.

I keep on meaning to sit down and suss out controlling it with my GX-100. I need an actual MIDI cable, right? 

Yeah you do. It's pretty easy just 4 channels and the 2 master volumes. I think the FX loop might be switchable as well.

luckydip

Friend had Bassbreaker. It caught fire. He doesn't have it anymore.

Bellycaster

luckydip said:

Friend had Bassbreaker. It caught fire. He doesn't have it anymore.

Sorry, but that did make me chuckle even though it shouldn't. As long as he was not injured

Bellycaster

A lot of love for the 40, but also hear good things about the 20, aside from the speaker, it's got some good reviews. On ereviewer changed his pre amp valves to 12AY's and was pleased. I don't know if it's a Marshall thing but they say it can be quite shrill until the Master volume goes past 12 O'clock?

Yorkie

Bellycaster said:

I don't know if it's a Marshall thing but they say it can be quite shrill until the Master volume goes past 12 O'clock?

Not mine, but I clipped C19 and changed the speaker to a Creamback. It sounds amazing with master on 2-3. 

Bellycaster

Yorkie said:

Bellycaster said:

I don't know if it's a Marshall thing but they say it can be quite shrill until the Master volume goes past 12 O'clock?

Not mine, but I clipped C19 and changed the speaker to a Creamback. It sounds amazing with master on 2-3. 

Not sure what that means but I'll definitely consider speaker swap. Might give the 70/80 in the DSL a chance first (I think the DSL20 will suffice for me). I'm sure I can get a decent tone for live gigs, we'll see.

ICBM

Bellycaster said:

On ereviewer changed his pre amp valves to 12AY's and was pleased.

That would be unwise without knowing which ones to change. At least one is a cathode follower, which will blow a 12AY7. Likewise 12AT7s, although perhaps surprisingly a 12AU7 would be fine - but also possibly a risk to the plate resistors. The types are not as interchangeable as a lot of people seem to think, you need more information.

Yorkie

Bellycaster said:

Yorkie said:

Bellycaster said:

I don't know if it's a Marshall thing but they say it can be quite shrill until the Master volume goes past 12 O'clock?

Not mine, but I clipped C19 and changed the speaker to a Creamback. It sounds amazing with master on 2-3. 

Not sure what that means but I'll definitely consider speaker swap. Might give the 70/80 in the DSL a chance first (I think the DSL20 will suffice for me). I'm sure I can get a decent tone for live gigs, we'll see.

C19 is a treble bleed cap on the high gain channel’s gain pot (only applies to DSL40C at least with that name). 

Bellycaster

ICBM said:

Bellycaster said:

On ereviewer changed his pre amp valves to 12AY's and was pleased.

That would be unwise without knowing which ones to change. At least one is a cathode follower, which will blow a 12AY7. Likewise 12AT7s, although perhaps surprisingly a 12AU7 would be fine - but also possibly a risk to the plate resistors. The types are not as interchangeable as a lot of people seem to think, you need more information.

Thanks for the warning. I'll look at the review again to see if he's more specific and post back.