Voting For Composition Challenge 40

thecolourbox

If we are not doing a separate feedback thread, may I ask here for some advice/feedback please?

As grateful and flattered as I am for the kind comments (and votes) for my songs in this one and in previous editions, I often get quite bored with my compositions as they always seem to be so bland, easy listening, bed-wetter music, that kind of thing. I seem only to be able to write very safe and predictable music and whilst I think I can do that quite well, it's really boring to me. I don't really have any other way to express myself so it feels important to me to get better at this even though it's only really me who ever listens to it in reality.

I don't listen to music that sounds like my compositions, I listen to White Stripes, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Jeff Buckley, Radiohead. In my head I try to incorporate things from the music I like, which I kind of do in some ways but it still ends up coming out like a limp handshake sealing the purchase of a batch of wet lettuces

Does anyone have any tips to get me to push it a bit and come up with things that are a bit more interesting, challenging, more like a "rip your heart out" vibe than a "nice cosy log fire" vibe. This one's a bit more positive in fairness but most of the time I'm singing about depression, dying, drowning and hating things so I really don't know how I can still make them sound like a warm hug

I can come up with these kinds of things every day off the week if I wanted to but it's just really boring and feels like it's holding back my self expression.

Habanero

Well done to everyone for a varied and enjoyable playlist. But my voting goes...

5pts : @thecolourbox - another classic with Beatlesesque moments and that quirky 'drum' sound

3pts : @IMC1980 - up to your usual standards, with that inimitable vocal style I can't figure out how it's done!

1pt : @Petepassion - very raw and sounds like an MTV 'unplugged' version from back in the day

TTony

thecolourbox said:

If we are not doing a separate feedback thread, may I ask here for some advice/feedback please?

Firstly, I've really liked your composition entries.  They sound like they're "felt" rather than just played.  So, don't knock / criticise them because for every negative that you can throw at yourself, I can throw more positives.


But if you want to try a different style, 3 suggestions;

1. I've just finished reading Jeff Tweedy's book (titled something like "how to write one song").  There are many tips in there for different approaches to lyric writing.  Maybe some of those would work for you and prompt you into writing something in a different style.
2. Challenge yourself to do something in the style of the White Stripes.  Use simple instruments, copy that lyrical style (do one for a cover challenge entry?), aim for that sort of feel / energy / effect.
3. Or ... do a collaboration with someone.  You do some music tracks, they do some, you write some lyrics, they do some, and between you to put something together that's "yours" but also "theirs" and see what that produces?  Whatever the output, it'd be different to what you'd have created solo and might give you some inspiration for future solo tracks - or you might decide that you prefer your solo stuff.
   

Sporky

One thing I've tried a few times is to steal something from a track I don't like, and warp it into something I do.

Sprinkles is the Stella Artois advert. Mesons Are Both Strange And Charming was the Eastenders theme. 

If I start with something I don't like it forces me to work a bit harder.

Also, if it's any consolation, everything I've done sounds a bit obvious and weaksauce to me.

TTony

thecolourbox said:

If we are not doing a separate feedback thread, may I ask here for some advice/feedback please?

And I'd certainly appreciate some feedback too, though from a slightly different angle.

Backstory:  My (2) entries to date were;

1. based on some lyrics given to me 40-odd years ago by someone who wasn't (but probably could have been) a very good friend, so they have some personal feelings wrapped up in them (I hadn't deliberately kept/treasured them, but somehow hadn't lost them in all those years).
2. developed originally for a different audience; primarily acoustic and a far more folky/poetic vibe.  Most of my output has gone in that direction over the last few years, which has greatly influenced the style of my playing.

Hence my entries have been acoustic based, with some drums/synths added on top.  

They also all been played by me - drums tapped in, other instruments via my keyboard, etc.  No loops/etc have been used.  And similar to @thecolourbox - very different to the music I'd typically listen to (classic 70s/80s rock).  I *think* my vocals are improving (I'm still not happy with my voice) but that's probably the limiting factor for me in terms of what sort of tracks I'd be able to create.

I've trial-and-errored with mixing.  Lots of both the trial and the error.  It's something that I'd like to understand better (OK, each instrument in its own "space" in the mix, physically and frequencially) so that I can achieve better results.  That's really what I'd appreciate some constructive comments on, though other constructive comments are also very welcome ...

Petepassion

Hey @thecolourbox ;
the songs I write at home when not much is going on are very different to what I write when I’m busy with the band.
   I don’t like anything fake, it’s gotta be real, so try best you can to change your environment, try to play with other musicians, especially musicians into the same kind of music as you. Given time this will impact your songwriting.
    The trick is to not try, just follow what comes naturally, the only trying is to change the environment which then allows that natural flow of new inspired music. 

   We cannot stay within the same environment too long and expect something different…in my opinion of course.
   But for what it’s worth, your stuff sounds the part, it sounds genuine, and that’s what matters.

thecolourbox

Thanks all for the comments and giving me some stuff to think about. Collaboration isn't really an option as I'm really not mentally up to the interaction - I'm annoying enough on here, but I'm actually quite toned down on here compared to real life. I'm not very nice to deal with unfortunately. But changing how I approach it seems the common theme, but of course is the most difficult thing to do. I live in a musical echo chamber i think, nobody I know likes my music nor do they like the music I like to listen to either so there isn't really anybody to bounce things off.

Most of my writing (and my drafting for the covers too) happens in my head and not at instruments, due to time constraints on when I can play music (ie when my other half isn't here basically).  I forget most of it, because my stupid ADD brain doesn't lend itself to short term memory. And the way I hear music in my head i think is unusual - I kind of don't really hear it as instruments as such but just like a kind of "wall of sound" playing the chords or accompaniment kind of like a kind of synth pad I suppose but with a more percussive first beat of the chord, then a variety of different voices singing the tunes and lyrics - not my own voice ever. The one I've sent for this one was written entirely in my head (the voice singing it I think was a mixture between Lennon and the bloke who did The Wellerman sea shanty), the verse tune was what came initially then I had to force through some variation for the chorus, hence the key change from D minor to A minor for the chorus, with the pivot basically me forcing myself in a different direction by "doing something like the change from verse to chorus in Yesterday" because I was bored of the tune and rhythm of the verse. I realised afterwards my instrumental intro which recurs is kind of a half-time copy of White Stripes Truth Doesn't Make a Noise. I get a lot of plagiarism pangs after the fact so I could never ever be a published songwriter as the legal fees would be crippling.

When I improvise on piano, it's all very safe and dull as well though, so it's not just because I compose that way that things come out the way they do - I think I just don't have a very good imagination. That's probably why I enjoy listening to the artists that I do, because they are full of imagination and it's something I just don't feel like I have. Also like Tony has said he feels the same way, the voice really is kind of restricting as to what can be done in a lot of ways - that's not to say my voice or Tony's voice aren't good, not at all, just that if you're writing for yourself then it's really hard to let the creativity run free if you know the voice just won't do it. That's why there's not a lot of point me trying to write White Stripes songs as my voice just doesn't work with it even if the hypothetical song was a good one. 

thecolourbox

Tony, in regards to your mixing - I think this one in particular was nicely spacious and spread out well, when new instrument parts come in they arrive from different directions and the voice is in the middle I think. I'm not very good at mixing, and I don't claim to have any knowledge of how to do things well or even good taste in what sounds good or not, so maybe take what I'm saying with a few pinches of salt. What I tend to do when my guitar parts (or voice parts) feel a bit weak, and often they do as I'm not a great player, is just manually double tracking things quieter in the opposite pan position on a slight delay. Usually 50ms I think but just play around with it I guess. Sometimes if it's guitar I'll add a bit more overdrive, if it's voice I might make it more trebly and increase the reverb etc. It's not very technical and may even make things muddier and mushier, I don't know, but it's what I tend to do so whether you like what my productions sound like or not, you know what to do or avoid as appropriate

Habanero

@thecolourbox

Since you kind of asked about the intro on my tune, the effect is in fact a TC Electronic Sub 'N' Up with Up on about 50%, Sub 1 on 100%, and Sub 2 on about 25%. It then goes through a DigiTech Carcosa Fuzz into my Laney amp, which is quite chimey on the Clean channel. The feedback bits were done with a DigiTech Freqout. For completeness, the rhythm tracks used TC Rusty and Honeypot fuzzes and a good old MXR Phase 90.

Bezzer

I'll join in, why not

5 : @IMC1980 - I know I'll get accused of bias, and you'd probably be right. But you don't work with people if you don't like their writing style right? And I think that's a belter.
3 : @Habanero - Man, that is nasty, in all the best ways possible. Really enjoyed that! 
1 : @Petepassion - bit of a hot mix so it's distorting a bit unpleasantly but doesn't take away from the fact it's a really good song.

Well done all, I'll join these as well when I get some more bloody energy back. Lesson to self, never take on 3 album projects at once!

Bezzer

thecolourbox said:

I don't listen to music that sounds like my compositions, I listen to White Stripes, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Jeff Buckley, Radiohead. In my head I try to incorporate things from the music I like, which I kind of do in some ways but it still ends up coming out like a limp handshake sealing the purchase of a batch of wet lettuces

This, this is the problem. Listen to things in the same mould / genre / vibe. Listen to what they do to build drama / maintain interest. Nick Drake, Jeff Buckley who you do mention (and his dad), John Martyn were all masters of this.

This isn't a criticism as I'm envious of people who can turn out a lot of music quickly, but instead of going "done, submit" sit on them for a while and come back to the mixes, come back with fresh ideas on the same song. Overload the tracks with parts and then pull out different ideas and see which ones stick. 

Nothing of this is a personal so please don't take it as such, this is how I look at my own music. I think I swallowed a set of oblique strategy cards as a kid! (There is an app of these btw, might also help). I have to let things brew, simmer in the back of my mind, to decide if I actually like the piece or not.

Other option of course is deliberately try to emulate bands you DO like listening to and compose in that style rather deliberately.

I don't know, I'm probably just rambling now ... I'm not very well and it's been a looooong week! 

TTony

Thanks for the feedback @thecolourbox . 

I'm currently working my way through some of the online content at mastering.com.  Some of the presentation is annoyingly 'murican, but there are some good tips in there too.  I'm just trying to hoover up the tips and build some knowledge.  Right now I've developed to the stage of at least realising that there's a huge amount I don't know.  Next stage is working out what those areas of ignorance are, and then a few stages (and many trial-and-errors) later, learning what do about some of them.


thecolourbox said: Collaboration isn't really an option as I'm really not mentally up to the interaction - I'm annoying enough on here, but I'm actually quite toned down on here compared to real life.
Perhaps direct interactive collaboration wouldn't work well for you (though I'd still argue for trying it!), but maybe - in the same way that the solo challenge invites people to do their own solo thing over a shared backing track - we could produce some sort of chord progression, maybe with drums/bass lines too, and use that as a starting point for a "what can you do with this" challenge?  

That could come with a theme - eg bpm at least 120, or no keys, or whatever.  Might prompt a different style of composition?

Petepassion

I’m happy to throw in some riffs or chord progressions if Colourbox or anyone else would like.
   I’ve had a few lately, kinda Raconteurs/QOTSA

thecolourbox

Thanks Bezzer, I know what you mean about my output generally being a bit "oh sod it that'll do" but then a fair few of the last few entries on here have been old songs that had been left to stew over a number of years even and still sound the same haha so I think it's all leading to me just not having the imagination to do what I envisage I should be able to do. Maybe it's the kind of hand-to-eye coordination (left brain to right brain coordination?) to create things that reflect what I kind of conceptualise in my head? I know I'm better at the covers than the originals, but then they are always going to be better songs anyway aren't they. Just quite a hard thing to accept, either to accept that I'm doing it all wrong and have to do something completely different, or to accept that I'll never find my music very interesting and just have to treat the creative process like i'm doing a crossword puzzle or something. Fit it all together and move on.

The way my stupid ADD brain works lends itself to the quick fire production line thing and in general I like to adopt a minimalist approach in life and in art. It satisfies the constant nagging brain need to do stuff and finish it and move on. In fact since I worked out that's what was wrong with my brain, my creative output has gone through the roof.

Where the crossover lies between what I like to listen to and what I can churn out creatively, is more in the realms of songs which are kind of like twisted traditional songs. For example that's what I liked about Jeff Buckley, there's a lot of very agreeable and traditional sounds in the harmony and melodies, but they are just twisted enough to be interesting. I have no doubt I could compose (albeit not sing) balls-out rock or full on neo classical experimental stuff if i deliberately set out to do that, but that's not really my ideal sound and wouldn't get across what I like to do lyrically I don't think. I suppose that is quite a hard thing to do, to only just cross the line between MOR and Edgy. Like Velvet Underground for example, to me their songs are fairly standard pop influenced tunes but they are just twisted enough to be interesting. White Stripes being similar.

I don't want to make music which sounds like White Stripes or the other bands like that I like, that would be pointless and would devalue their music to me if I even tried (as i'd be shite at it). The Jeff Buckley and general 90s thing of quiet and loud contrasting and building to the end is probably the nearest thing to what's in my head. Stylistically or aesthetically I suppose my vision is to have the quiet bits of Buckley in with the loud bits of the grungier type stuff like Soungarden for example, so light and shade and songs meaning something, going somewhere. Not just songs that go round in a pleasant little circle to end up where they started via some nice little simplistic poetry.

Petepassion

‘The Jeff Buckley and general 90s thing of quiet and loud contrasting and building to the end is probably the nearest thing to what's in my head’,
   I saw Elliot Smith in Brighton and he had it sussed(with the exception of killing himself), him and his band took dynamics to a higher level, unlike the blunt and obvious up/down of Nirvana(amazing in their own right). They could make the slightest nuance so powerful…and an incredible songwriter too.

TTony

Petepassion said:

I’m happy to throw in some riffs or chord progressions if Colourbox or anyone else would like.
   I’ve had a few lately, kinda Raconteurs/QOTSA

I'd be interested in trying something along those lines @Petepassion ;

Petepassion

Ok, obviously it doesn’t need to be a great recording as it’s about the ideas, so I’ll post some ideas here(no laughing  ), rehearsal tonight and out tomorrow, so maybe by the weekend.

stratman3142

Sorry not to give more in depth feedback, but I seem to be up to my eyeballs in stuff at the moment. All great tracks and thanks to all that participated. I just going with quick gut reactions this month and things that made an immediate impact.

5 points : @midiman1962 ; :  Witty bluesy track with a nice feel. Great picture. I like the whole package. Maybe the next Chaz & Dave

3 points : @Petepassion ; :  Great raw stripped back track that just works. Good song and good delivery. Your voice reminds me a bit of Green (Scritti Politti).

1 point : @IMC1980 ; : Classic rock. Quiet intro, builds well to a powerful climax, then ends gently.

stratman3142

Voting ends tonight at midnight.

stratman3142

Voting closed.