What’s better (disregarding taste) Harley B TE53KR or Vintage V59 icon (disregarding the relic)

hollywoodrox

I’ve wanted a tele for a while for leaving in open G & messing round with stones songs 
  & I like the Harley Benton TE53 Keith Richards Tribute  but I also fell in love with the V59 icon a few years ago . I wonder which represented best value for money  or best quality ?  I’ve been off Vintage for a while as there used to be a house band one at a jam night for people to use it was a goldtop LP but no one could get it to stay in tune . I did have a v6 icon strat at one time I always thought they were a bit overpriced compared to HB . 

It’s a difficult choice , I had a recent windfall & can get either at the same price . The HB is a spot on Keef tribute for the price & Im a worshipper at the alter of Keef & Ron  , the V59 is not like a Keef guitar at all but I love the double bound custom & even what everyone on here will call the trashy plastic relic job ,there’s no accounting for taste  & I can still play Keef stuff on it & make it my own .
i like both of them & it’s hard to chose . So disregarding the relic as it’s to virtually no one’s taste ,which represents the best value . The V59 does have a higher MRP in most places but only as they have to have a middleman distributor unlike Thomann who HB is their house brand .

whaddya reckon ???? 

Here’s a few pics 

joetele

Vintage Icon series should on paper be much better than Harley Benton but you never know 

KrisGee

I was always very impressed with Vintage stuff and not so much with HB. Vintage imo feels like a well thought out and engineered instrument very often exceeding expectations. You can tell it was designed by a musician and with a musician in mind. I owned a few over the years and they never disappointed.
Most Harley Bentons I played including my son's LP remind me cheap starter pack guitars you get off Amazon. But I understand there might be nicer models out there that I haven't tried. 

hollywoodrox

joetele said:

Vintage Icon series should on paper be much better than Harley Benton but you never know 

Hey Joe ,thanks for your input , well it’s got the graphite nut & wilkinson hardware  so that’s something to consider . The HB has some good reviews on the site  although there is talk of it being heavy . Thanks again for weighing in man ,have a great evening 

TheMarlin

The vintage will at least have decent Wilkinson pickups and hardware. 

The HB may need upgrades to get in par with the Vintage. 

WBT2079

I had one of the HBentons, it was nice sounded good, the pickups they’ve used pair well, but in the end I got rid of it as I couldn’t get on with the colour it was more like butternut squash than butterscotch blonde.

BobHillman

I haven't played either, but I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the HB guitars I have bought (LP Standard/LP DC Junior/TE62). Is it worth noting that the Vintage has a 3-saddle bridge, and 22, rather than 21 frets? Also, I dislike "relic" finishes (as opposed to genuinely "used" guitars).I suspect that the only real test is playing both.

swiller

hollywoodrox

Thanks for your help guys it’s proving very helpful to me 

BobHillman

Something I forgot to add - you can order the Harley Benton from Thomann, and try it out, with a 30 day return if you are unhappy with it. So would ordering the HB to experiment with, while searching for a Vintage you can try be a good idea?

Tall_martin

I have a Harley benton tele- I like it, it doesn't need the pickups replaced for my ears.

I had a vintage strat and a vintage Les Paul, the midge ure one with a trem. Both good guitars.

All three have been set up. I had a guitar tech set up the Harley benton, doubling its cost as I couldn't get it quite where I wanted it. Bothe the vintages had their frets dressed. 

SteveRobinson

You say "disregarding taste" but why else does anyone buy a guitar?

LionAquaLooper

I have 2 HB teles and they're very good but in this case I'd choose the relic Vintage. Unless you prefer a humbucker neck then the choice is already made for you. That would be the Harley Benton. 

hollywoodrox

BobHillman said:

Something I forgot to add - you can order the Harley Benton from Thomann, and try it out, with a 30 day return if you are unhappy with it. So would ordering the HB to experiment with, while searching for a Vintage you can try be a good idea?


id Really like to buy one or the other without doing a return to HB , I’ve returned stuff to them (HB 335’s) before & it’s a bit of a drag now , 

hollywoodrox

SteveRobinson said:

You say "disregarding taste" but why else does anyone buy a guitar?

I meant regarding the relicing , most people find it abominable  so wanted to eliminate it from the judging process

hollywoodrox

LionAquaLooper said:

I have 2 HB teles and they're very good but in this case I'd choose the relic Vintage. Unless you prefer a humbucker neck then the choice is already made for you. That would be the Harley Benton. 

Thanks yes Appreciate it  , I know the HB is the Keef Spec but the humbucker neck is not too much of a dealbreaker as it would be an easy alteration if I fell in love with the relic vintage plus 
& wanted to change it in the future  plus I’ve had squier teles I. The past that did the job without the humbucker .   

I guess  what its  down to  is   - do I chose the Vintage because of its quality & my strange infatuation with it even though it’s not a particularly Keef model .

or chose a purposely designed & well done budget Keith tribute which seems well regarded 
apart from color & weight .

i can get both new for £200 to £250 I can’t justify spending more & couldn’t justify spending this were it not for a recent bit of good fortune . I could add even more accelerant to the fire 
by throwing in the fact that a B stock HB is also available at £168  that’s been sent back ,but then you think  ,why was it sent back ? Dodgy electrics or sone other fault  , which makes you think  well the electrics on the Vintage are probably going to be significantly better . Buy that & put your mind at rest .

thanks guys .  & just for fun  you can comment on the relic job if you like it won’t bother me 
& will provide you with some entertainment for being such good eggs & giving me some advice 
I remember the Ltd George lynch stencil relic jobs & didn’t think they were too abysmal .

Feel free even to post your Keef or Ronnie inspired guitars or relics  I’d love to see them 

BillDL

My observations about the specifications, or rather the specifications that would have any significance to my buying choice.

Harley Benton 12" radius fretboard and 42mm bone nut.  Vintage 10" radius and 43mm graphite nut.

Nut widths aren't always accurately reflected in printed spec, and even when they are the guitars can have nuts that vary in width by almost as much as 1mm.  I would prefer the Vintage spec of the slightly more curved fretboard and 1mm wider nut.  I've never had many problems with a properly cut and smoothed nut of either material, especially on a non-trem guitar, but in general I've found the Vintage nuts to be slightly better finished than Harley Benton.

Harley Benton has an Ash body.  The Vintage has a Poplar one.  Generally Ash is denser and heavier than Poplar, but it depends what kid of ash.  These days I find that a heavy solid ash bodied guitar is heavier than I would specifically choose if I had the choice.

The neck on the HB is "caramel maple" i.e. roasted / toasted maple whereas the Vintage apparently has non-treated maple neck.  Roasted maple is a bit lighter in weight than untreated maple, but is actually softer (porosity wise) and more brittle, and can crack quite readily when screwing in tuner screws and neck screws, or can chip easily around the tuner holes if swapping the ferrule Kluson tuners for ones where the ferrule has to be removed.  A roasted maple neck is far less likely to shrink than an untreated maple one on a cheaper guitar and cause protruding fret ends, but if they do start poking out on a roasted maple fretboard it's easier to damage the fretboard when dressing them.  The spec doesn't say if either has a separate maple slab for the fretboard or if they are one piece necks.  If I had to guess I would say it's more likely the Vintage will have a one piece neck and the HB a separate fretboard slab.  That's usually just a visual thing, but on HB slab maple fretboards I've had slight ridges at the neck to fretboard joint that I assume could be from different expansion rates of the woods, but could just have been a lack of final finishing finesse.

21 vs 22 frets (HB vs Vintage).  I prefer having 22 frets, but sometimes the fretboard overhang can be a pain in the arse when trying to remove the pickguard even after raising the neck pickup as high as it can go. You said earlier:

"I know the HB is the Keef Spec but the humbucker neck is not too much of a dealbreaker as it would be an easy alteration if I fell in love with the relic vintage ...."

Only if the HB had a humbucker or swimming pool rout or you were handy with a router (or a Dremel sanding drum for a more crude job).

The tuners on the HB are their own brand that are roughly comparable to Wilkinsons as used on the Vintage. They are good enough quality for the price, but of the tuners that I've felt tight spots or looseness more of them were HB ones.  The bridge on the HB is not brass but just gold plate metal that would not impart any of the "Keef" brass bridge sound, if brass actually does impart its own sound.  I believe it does, because even brass saddles can make a difference.  The HB bridge has screws at the front and the back to hold it into the body whereas the Wilkinson one on the Vintage doesn't.  I've had Tele copies with bridges that are only secured at the back (including Wilkinsons) where the bridge plate lifts at the front just enough to add strange and annoying extra vibrations and I've had to drill extra screw holes at the front.  That may just have been a badly sanded body under the bridge area or thinner metal on the bridge plate.  In general I prefer the "modern" Tele bridge with separate saddles to the 3 brass barrel saddles, even when they are the intonated ones, but that's a personal preference and in this case the gold plating that might wear off quickly may put me off.  Easy and cheap enough to change though.

The Tesla Opus-4 neck humbucker is stated on the Thomann website to be an Alnico V.  It appears to be an Alnico II whereas an Opus-5 would be the Alnico V one.  From the Opus charts the Alnico II would seem to be balanced in the lows and mids (D.C. Resistance 7.9K Resonant Peak 6.1 kHz) but accented in the highs, whereas the Alnico V Opus-5 ((D.C. Resistance 7.9K Resonant Peak 8 kHz) shows that it has a more accented midrange.  The Alnico V Opus-TE in the bridge is stated to be a mid to high level output pickup (D.C. Resistance 9.2K  Resonant Peak 5.8 kHz) with accentuated mids and highs.  The Wilkinson pickups on the Vintage are Alnico V 7.1K and 6.9K (bridge, neck) and are from their "premium" range of affordable ones, i.e. not basic cheap ones but not their expensive Calible R series. The Wilkinsons will obviously have a well balanced "vintage" sound whereas the pickups in the HB will be an attempt to get a semblance of the "Keef" sound.  I would prefer the Wilkinson pair because I have these in a few Tele style guitars that sound really good.

Disregarding the relic finish I believe I would probably choose the Vintage primarily because:

1. I don't want to sound or look like Keef

2. I prefer single coils in traditionally made (except the bridge) Tele style like the HB

3. 22 frets.

4. I believe the Vintage would just edge the HB out in terms of fit and finish.

5. Even though the nut on the Vintage is given as being just 1mm wider than the HB, at least if they sanded the neck too vigorously there I should still end up with a 42mm nut rather than a 41mm one.

Would I buy the Vintage?  No, I couldn't bring myself to buy a new guitar that's been artificially aged and beaten up.  Spray it in a nice clean, fresh, smooth looking sunburst (gloss or satin) and I would then buy it.

OilCityPickups

With Oil City we've (and me personally) bought several cheaper Harley Bentons and several 'Vintage' instruments. All have had either some minor faults/flaws or have needed upgrades to be 100%. The worst fault was on one Vintage V100 Les Paul type: where I swear there was a fault in the CNC program as the neck was both cut at a ridiculous shallow C that was thinner and more flexible than any SG  I've ever played! I got rid of it VERY quickly. In general I'd stick my neck out and say the wood and finish is better on the Harley Bentons I've tried/owned and the hardware is streets ahead on the Vintage brand guitars. 

My Harley Benton Jazz Bass is great including a nice alder body and a super comfortable neck ... but needed pretty much everything hardware wise replaced to be giggable (except funnily enough the pots and cap ... nice feel and high quality).     

jonnyburgo

Cant comment on the V59 but I have the V52 "relic" blackguard Tele, the relic job isnt great and has a clear overspray over the relic job, why I don't know. But it is a great sounding and playing Tele. Neck pickup can be a touch muddy but the bridge pickup is great.

Dave_Mc

TheMarlin said:

The vintage will at least have decent Wilkinson pickups and hardware. 

The HB may need upgrades to get in par with the Vintage. 

I would strongly suspect the Tesla pickups would be better than Wilkinson pickups- even the Roswells I've tried have been IMO better than the Wilkinsons I've tried, and I think the Teslas are a step-up from them (I haven't tried the Teslas, to be clear).

I suspect you're right about the hardware, but some HBs (perhaps not this one) have some Wilkinson hardware too.

I'm pretty much with @OilCityPickups and @BillDL regarding their assessment- I haven't tried that many of either, but I've been pleasantly surprised with the Harley Bentons I have tried (a lot of that is dependent on the model) and I thought the Vintage Jazz Bass I got felt a bit dear (not to mention heavy!) compared to my Harley Bentons. There are some deals on Outlet Vintages on Ivor Mairants (that's where I got my Jazz bass), but even at the outlet price, the Harley Bentons can be a fair bit cheaper.

hollywoodrox

BillDL said:

My observations about the specifications, or rather the specifications that would have any significance to my buying choice.

Harley Benton 12" radius fretboard and 42mm bone nut.  Vintage 10" radius and 43mm graphite nut.

Nut widths aren't always accurately reflected in printed spec, and even when they are the guitars can have nuts that vary in width by almost as much as 1mm.  I would prefer the Vintage spec of the slightly more curved fretboard and 1mm wider nut.  I've never had many problems with a properly cut and smoothed nut of either material, especially on a non-trem guitar, but in general I've found the Vintage nuts to be slightly better finished than Harley Benton.

Harley Benton has an Ash body.  The Vintage has a Poplar one.  Generally Ash is denser and heavier than Poplar, but it depends what kid of ash.  These days I find that a heavy solid ash bodied guitar is heavier than I would specifically choose if I had the choice.

The neck on the HB is "caramel maple" i.e. roasted / toasted maple whereas the Vintage apparently has non-treated maple neck.  Roasted maple is a bit lighter in weight than untreated maple, but is actually softer (porosity wise) and more brittle, and can crack quite readily when screwing in tuner screws and neck screws, or can chip easily around the tuner holes if swapping the ferrule Kluson tuners for ones where the ferrule has to be removed.  A roasted maple neck is far less likely to shrink than an untreated maple one on a cheaper guitar and cause protruding fret ends, but if they do start poking out on a roasted maple fretboard it's easier to damage the fretboard when dressing them.  The spec doesn't say if either has a separate maple slab for the fretboard or if they are one piece necks.  If I had to guess I would say it's more likely the Vintage will have a one piece neck and the HB a separate fretboard slab.  That's usually just a visual thing, but on HB slab maple fretboards I've had slight ridges at the neck to fretboard joint that I assume could be from different expansion rates of the woods, but could just have been a lack of final finishing finesse.

21 vs 22 frets (HB vs Vintage).  I prefer having 22 frets, but sometimes the fretboard overhang can be a pain in the arse when trying to remove the pickguard even after raising the neck pickup as high as it can go. You said earlier:

"I know the HB is the Keef Spec but the humbucker neck is not too much of a dealbreaker as it would be an easy alteration if I fell in love with the relic vintage ...."

Only if the HB had a humbucker or swimming pool rout or you were handy with a router (or a Dremel sanding drum for a more crude job).

The tuners on the HB are their own brand that are roughly comparable to Wilkinsons as used on the Vintage. They are good enough quality for the price, but of the tuners that I've felt tight spots or looseness more of them were HB ones.  The bridge on the HB is not brass but just gold plate metal that would not impart any of the "Keef" brass bridge sound, if brass actually does impart its own sound.  I believe it does, because even brass saddles can make a difference.  The HB bridge has screws at the front and the back to hold it into the body whereas the Wilkinson one on the Vintage doesn't.  I've had Tele copies with bridges that are only secured at the back (including Wilkinsons) where the bridge plate lifts at the front just enough to add strange and annoying extra vibrations and I've had to drill extra screw holes at the front.  That may just have been a badly sanded body under the bridge area or thinner metal on the bridge plate.  In general I prefer the "modern" Tele bridge with separate saddles to the 3 brass barrel saddles, even when they are the intonated ones, but that's a personal preference and in this case the gold plating that might wear off quickly may put me off.  Easy and cheap enough to change though.

The Tesla Opus-4 neck humbucker is stated on the Thomann website to be an Alnico V.  It appears to be an Alnico II whereas an Opus-5 would be the Alnico V one.  From the Opus charts the Alnico II would seem to be balanced in the lows and mids (D.C. Resistance 7.9K Resonant Peak 6.1 kHz) but accented in the highs, whereas the Alnico V Opus-5 ((D.C. Resistance 7.9K Resonant Peak 8 kHz) shows that it has a more accented midrange.  The Alnico V Opus-TE in the bridge is stated to be a mid to high level output pickup (D.C. Resistance 9.2K  Resonant Peak 5.8 kHz) with accentuated mids and highs.  The Wilkinson pickups on the Vintage are Alnico V 7.1K and 6.9K (bridge, neck) and are from their "premium" range of affordable ones, i.e. not basic cheap ones but not their expensive Calible R series. The Wilkinsons will obviously have a well balanced "vintage" sound whereas the pickups in the HB will be an attempt to get a semblance of the "Keef" sound.  I would prefer the Wilkinson pair because I have these in a few Tele style guitars that sound really good.

Disregarding the relic finish I believe I would probably choose the Vintage primarily because:

1. I don't want to sound or look like Keef

2. I prefer single coils in traditionally made (except the bridge) Tele style like the HB

3. 22 frets.

4. I believe the Vintage would just edge the HB out in terms of fit and finish.

5. Even though the nut on the Vintage is given as being just 1mm wider than the HB, at least if they sanded the neck too vigorously there I should still end up with a 42mm nut rather than a 41mm one.

Would I buy the Vintage?  No, I couldn't bring myself to buy a new guitar that's been artificially aged and beaten up.  Spray it in a nice clean, fresh, smooth looking sunburst (gloss or satin) and I would then buy it.

Bill ,thanks so much , that is a superb roundup ,thank you for taking the time out to write it ,I’m going to re read it 3 or 4 times  there were, points I had not even considered eg one piece neck etc  & the bit about the bridge having screws at the front to stop it lifting slightly ,The difference between the roasted neck  too.  I thought the vintage had a 12” radius  although I’m used to playing anything from a 9 to 16 or higher having a strat and Ibanez guitars & jacksons .
thanks so much for you thorough input