Sub Zero Saturn 5V - EQ Question

Dave_Mc

randella said:

Dave_Mc said:

randella said:

Ah yeah, I hadn't seen that! You're right, you'd expect it to tie the input to ground before the grid stopper (R9). I wonder why they did that? Also the 68K value of the stopper is replicating the low input of the Champ (the high input parallels two 68s for a 34K total). 

Ah you're even using the correct terms and everything! 

Hah oh no - apologies, hoping it doesn't come across as a smart-alec flex! I'm learning - slowly - I just find it really interesting, and valve circuits are the perfect antidote to days of computers. I did have a bit of electronics background (degree) but I never used it and it was back in the late 90s so it kind of evaporated. Gradually getting it back.

I always write these posts in the knowledge that the time-served amp guys on here will put me straight if needs be, I've learned quite a bit that way

This circuit I just find ever so slightly odd - they deliberately pass high frequencies with a bright cap on the volume pot, then immediately after, add that snubber cap in parallel with the plate load on the second stage which is going to take some high frequency back out again. Just wonder about the thinking, there was obviously a reason.

And yeah, I don't think I've used a 'low' input on any amp ever

LOL don't worry, I'd rather you use the right terms!

Yeah definitely some of the designs in some of the cheaper amps are a bit weird- as I said above, it'd (maybe) make sense if they made dearer amps, but a lot of the time they don't... not sure what's going on. (EDIT: Although they often make bigger amps which cost a bit more... maybe they consider those to be "more expensive" amps they're trying to push you towards?) But as you said, I'm guessing there's a reason... it's just not always clear what that is!

randella

Yeah I wonder if the circuit design (and any compromises) are a cost thing - some doubtless will be. I think you're right, they want you to buy the bigger amps for sure - probably the same unusual design choices but based on a Princeton!

Anyway curiosity got the better of me and I've ordered one. It'll be here tomorrow.

Humboldt - really sorry to hear you've had hassles, I hope they sort it for you. And also apologies for massively hijacking your thread. I promise I'll start a new one when I get round to playing with mine. Looking forward to trying with and without an EQ.

I have a homemade Mesa-spec 1x12" with a Neo Creamback in it, that could be interesting. Also was lucky to be given some Laney gear for free recently, including a 4x12". Now that really *could* be a giggle (or a massive disappointment )

Humboldt

Mine will be collected tomorrow and I've requested a replacement. Rather than using my EQ pedal I've ordered a 15 quid Dolamo Mixing Boost Pedal from aliexpress as my EQ works well with my Catalyst and it's a faff switching from amp to amp. Looking forward to your own thoughts on the Sub Zero as, whilst I think that it's great for the money, I've no other valve amp to compare it to. 

Dave_Mc

randella said:

Yeah I wonder if the circuit design (and any compromises) are a cost thing - some doubtless will be. I think you're right, they want you to buy the bigger amps for sure - probably the same unusual design choices but based on a Princeton!

Anyway curiosity got the better of me and I've ordered one. It'll be here tomorrow.

Humboldt - really sorry to hear you've had hassles, I hope they sort it for you. And also apologies for massively hijacking your thread. I promise I'll start a new one when I get round to playing with mine. Looking forward to trying with and without an EQ.

I have a homemade Mesa-spec 1x12" with a Neo Creamback in it, that could be interesting. Also was lucky to be given some Laney gear for free recently, including a 4x12". Now that really *could* be a giggle (or a massive disappointment )

Wow nice score, I'll be interested to hear what it's like when you get it! (LOL about the unusual design choices in the dearer ones, you're probably right!)

Also sorry to hear about the problems you've had @Humboldt , hopefully the replacement will be better!

Humboldt

I received my replacement amp today - certainly can't complain about Gear4Music's excellent return policy - and my first impressions are unchanged ie pretty average unless using an EQ/Boost pedal (when it pounces into life).

I tried different pickups and found that Filtertrons sound amazing, ceramic Strat really good too, alnico Strat a bit trebly, Tele pickups good and really only a poor result with humbuckers (break up at even low volume). These were all set for clean tones.

With my EQ dialled in at roughly half way and the amp at 1watt I can barely get the amplifier volume past 9 o'clock without being too loud for home use. I'm ok with that as I can get some lovely sounds at these levels. In fact, I've just removed my HB TE-90 from the classified section as it just sounds superb through the Sub Zero.

Would I recommend it? Probably not even although I, personally, like it not everyone will want to have to mess with a separate EQ to get it singing.

Humboldt

More fiddling around.......

Swapped out my HB EQ pedal for the cheap Dolamo boost pedal from AliExpress and it works well, with some improvement shown with humbuckers, although still too dark for my liking.

All my tests have been at relatively low volumes and the amp does sound better on it's own as you crank it up but there's still something flat about the sound without the pedal and, of course, the pedal gives you a good sound at lowish volume.

As I said earlier, its a long time since I had a tube amp so I could be talking utter nonsense and @randella will no doubt give a better synopsis. 

Dave_Mc

That does sound about right for the cheaper low wattage tube amps, at least the ones I've tried. They tend to be on the darker side of things, and tend to sound better with lower output and/or brighter pickups.

Brow

A few friends of mine have bought those Harley Benton Tube5 amps and going by clips they've sent me; they sound good!

They've not spoken of any issues, nor of build quality etc, but im tempted myself next time I need a new practice amp

randella

Just to keep this one going, I got my SubZero delivered next day. Can't honestly believe what you get for the money! I've not had a chance to really test it out, although straight away I'm with Humboldt that it needs an EQ to shift the honkiness.

I need more time (anyone want to come round and finish my bathroom refit? ) but I did try it into a 12" cab with a Marshall Guv'nor II drive in the front. Hah, my days - absolutely monstrous. Mrs. R. came home to find me with a stupid grin on my face that night.

I know that's really not what it's for so I will keep experimenting.

Dave_Mc

randella said:

Just to keep this one going, I got my SubZero delivered next day. Can't honestly believe what you get for the money! I've not had a chance to really test it out, although straight away I'm with Humboldt that it needs an EQ to shift the honkiness.

I need more time (anyone want to come round and finish my bathroom refit? ) but I did try it into a 12" cab with a Marshall Guv'nor II drive in the front. Hah, my days - absolutely monstrous. Mrs. R. came home to find me with a stupid grin on my face that night.

I know that's really not what it's for so I will keep experimenting.

Awesome, thanks for the update Glad you're enjoying it, there's definitely some fun to be had with cheaper gear these days

Humboldt

Just for a bit of fun I added in my booster pedal before the EQ.

Wow! Big, big sound.

Yeah, I think that I now definitely need a 1x12 cab (at least).

https://i.postimg.cc/9X8TZ6gq/Pedalboard-June-2024.jpg

Humboldt

Even better, I now use the Catalyst 60 as a slave (lead from rear of Sub Zero to FX Return) and it's fantastic. All this stuff is new to me and I was worried about something going pop but it works well. 
https://i.postimg.cc/K8Rw6F7b/Sub-Zero-Slave.jpg

Humboldt

Sadly, I've had to return the Sub Zero for repair (again) - just seemed to be working on half power. But I still want to keep it as the set-up with the Catalyst is really quite good. Hoping for 3td time lucky.

Dave_Mc

Humboldt said:

Sadly, I've had to return the Sub Zero for repair (again) - just seemed to be working on half power. But I still want to keep it as the set-up with the Catalyst is really quite good. Hoping for 3td time lucky.

That sucks If you do like it and can put up with the bother of the return, it probably makes sense to give it one more chance.

Humboldt

After discussing the matter with their engineer (who genuinely couldn't really find anything wrong) I've somehow ended up with a full refund. Gear4Music gave me several options and this seemed the simplest. I have to say that their returns policy if first rate.

Dave_Mc

Yeah it's hard to go wrong with a refund (at least as long as it's not something you absolutely need right now!). Pity they couldn't diagnose it, but at least you're no worse off and as you said, it looks like they're decent to deal with when something does go wrong.