Simplest DAW to Learn on Windows PC? Excluding Audacity! Thank You.

Numerov

This type of question normally opens a can of worms!

I'm an acoustic guitar-based singer/songwriter.
I used to use 4-track cassette-based machines back in the day!
My most recent recording setup revolved around a Zoom R24 machine.
Pretty quick for recording anything live but pretty fiddly for anything else I found.

I'm looking to make the move to computer recording/mixing on a Windows laptop.
I bought a 2nd hand Audient interface (first version of the ID14)
I've had a look at Waveform (Free) 12 and Reaper DAW software.
They both felt fiddly with a pretty steep learning curve.

Is there a VERY simple piece of DAW software that can at least get me started?
I am aware of Audacity being a simple piece of software.
Think I'm looking for something with a few more features.

So.... VERY simple to learn and use and please rule out Audacity.

Big thanks

Numerov

blobb

Mixbus.

drofluf

Out of interest what features does Audacity lack that you need?

andy_k

Reaper, without a doubt.
The quality of Kenny Gioia's tutorials make it a no brainer.

Danny1969

Protools is actually the simplest to learn. Just 2 windows which are the Edit and the Mix. I have got loads of people into recording using old machines and old versions of Protools. It comes with everything you need really, inc superb synths, piano, organ, great suit of plugins. In lockdown a did a whole album with PT 8 running on a 2007 machine and an Mbox pro I paid £30 for. 

However I wouldn't recommend it as a DAW if you already have an interface as it needs specific interfaces to work. However you can on a good day score an Mbox interface and PT8 for £15. This will run on Win 10 

monquixote

I'd suggest watching a couple of Reaper tutorials.

Once you get the hang of it you will be sorted to do almost anything.

Presonus Studio One is maybe a little more straightforward but not significantly so.

TheBigDipper

When I was still a Windows user, I used Mixbus because it was purported to be the closest thing to GarageBand you could get. It was pretty easy to get things done. 

IMHO, I know you asked about a Windows platform, but the easiest thing to learn would be GarageBand on an iPad. That will get you decent results without diving in too deep. 

Bod

Danny1969 said:

However I wouldn't recommend it as a DAW if you already have an interface as it needs specific interfaces to work. However you can on a good day score an Mbox interface and PT8 for £15. This will run on Win 10 

Does it still?  That's really surprising.  I thought it'd gone fully native a while back.  Interesting...

EDIT: Just checked and can be used with any ASIO/CoreAudio device

Danny1969

Bod said:

Danny1969 said:

However I wouldn't recommend it as a DAW if you already have an interface as it needs specific interfaces to work. However you can on a good day score an Mbox interface and PT8 for £15. This will run on Win 10 

Does it still?  That's really surprising.  I thought it'd gone fully native a while back.  Interesting...

EDIT: Just checked and can be used with any ASIO/CoreAudio device

ProTools 9. onwards can be use with any ASIO device BUT all  versions of ProTools before nine require either TDM / HD, Mbox or M powered  interfaces. 

So up to 9 it’s absolute bargain  software because it essentially comes free with the interface …. Nine and 10 on an iLock tend to be quite pricey stilll  and modern versions are subscription or a one-off very hefty price

Littlejonny

Bod said:

Danny1969 said:

However I wouldn't recommend it as a DAW if you already have an interface as it needs specific interfaces to work. However you can on a good day score an Mbox interface and PT8 for £15. This will run on Win 10 

Does it still?  That's really surprising.  I thought it'd gone fully native a while back.  Interesting...

EDIT: Just checked and can be used with any ASIO/CoreAudio device

I think Danny’s talking about an older version of PTLE. You’re right - the new one is fully native, but the free version is really restrictive (unless you pay for loads of cloud storage) and the full version is mega bucks.

Bod

Danny1969 said:

Bod said:

Danny1969 said:

However I wouldn't recommend it as a DAW if you already have an interface as it needs specific interfaces to work. However you can on a good day score an Mbox interface and PT8 for £15. This will run on Win 10 

Does it still?  That's really surprising.  I thought it'd gone fully native a while back.  Interesting...

EDIT: Just checked and can be used with any ASIO/CoreAudio device

ProTools 9. onwards can be use with any ASIO device BUT all  versions of ProTools before nine require either TDM / HD, Mbox or M powered  interfaces. 

So up to 9 it’s absolute bargain  software because it essentially comes free with the interface …. Nine and 10 on an iLock tend to be quite pricey stilll  and modern versions are subscription or a one-off very hefty price

Apologies, I misinterpreted your point and focused on the second paragraph.  Need more coffee

fretmeister

Reaper for me.

Loads of online video tutorials.

TTony

Simple is a tough ask as most DAWs are inherently complex - they're powerful bits of software.

The simplest way into recording is probably Garageband, but that's iOS, so no use to you unless you've got an iPad hidden away somewhere.  Reaper is often recommended (free to start), but you've ruled that one out too.

So, I'd focus on "easiest to learn" rather than "simplest".

Which leads me to;

• probably a product that has a tiered structure, ie an entry-level simpler option rather than dropping you straight into the deep end of complexity, and
• something that's well supported with structured/professional online tutorials

Most products have loads of YT content available, but the majority are fairly amateurish and scattergun from click-hunting bedroom YT-ers.

Spend a few minutes (no money) watching these, from the beginning, to get a feeling for the product, presenter, and whether it might work for you;

Lestratcaster

Reaper or Audacity I reckon. There may be something else though.

andy_k

To the OP,
I'd strongly recommend you check out a few Kenny videos, try subscribing to his channel and go back to the basics on getting up and running with Reaper.
I'm not denying there is a learning curve-with any DAW, but trust me, if you attempt to go down the PT rabbit hole, you will get immensely frustrated.
The user interface requires that you learn a lot of keyboard shortcuts to navigate, and the earlier versions mentioned were / are very difficult to make work reliably.
A few years back I did a degree, and was told a similar thing re-Mbox interfaces being cheap, however, I could never get anything to work on any windows machine-and only had ANY success by using a Linux OS, drivers are available, but I think modern OS will make this difficult to get working.
You mention simplicity, and I really do think that Reaper is the way to go, it costs nothing to try it out, and once the concept clicks, you will realise there is nothing that it cannot do well.
The ability to use a folder structure in a mix is something that Logic, and recently PT have adopted, although I still do not think they are as flexible as Reaper.
Don't bother with the 'free' version of PT, as you will still need to use an ILok, which becomes another bugbear.
Your Zoom R24 will work as a multi channel interface, and control surface for Reaper ( I use an R16 ), and that itself is a pretty amazing bit of kit really, I wanted to upgrade mine to a 24, but instead got a Tascam model 12, to do a similar thing.
One tip with Reaper, is you can set up a session exactly the way you want it, and then it can easily be used as a template for any further projects that are similar, and these can be as simple or as complex as you require.
These templates can be fully populated with tracks, tempo maps, plugins, etc, and any shortcuts can be made to your own choices - there is no real standard way to use it.
Also, the level of support is amazing from the forum, and the fact that Kenny has made all those tutorial videos officially for Cockos makes things very easy to build on. 

octatonic

@Numerov ;;

The problem with asking a question like this on a forum is you are likely to get responses from people saying the DAW that they use and understand is the one you should try.

There are relatively few folks who have an expert level of knowledge about all or most of the DAW's that exist and can make a value judgement about the relative merits of all of them. I think there are perhaps two or three people on the forum who can do this and one of them is the editor for Sound on Sound, who may chime in.

I am not saying my opinion is the only worthwhile one- take it with a grain of salt and see what works for you.
We all have different brains and absorb information in different ways.

For me a good DAW makes it easy to access the most important features, has an intelligible interface and doesn't nest things in menus more than it needs to. It is quite tricky to do.

andy_k said:

Reaper, without a doubt.
The quality of Kenny Gioia's tutorials make it a no brainer.

I disagree I am afraid.
Reaper is cheap to try but not easy to learn.
Certainly not easier to learn than other options.

You might have learned it (which is great) and perhaps it suits your way of thinking but plenty of people find it clunky and impenetrable. Personally I find the whole skins thing a bit gimmicky too and Cockos essentially handing over the development of the skins to the user base means it can be even more unfathomable to a beginner.

Kenny's videos are great though.

Reaper is a great DAW for people who need the DAW to be as close to free as possible,
Usually they will never go for something like Pro Tools or Nuendo, don't have the budget for it and don't have a need for the feature set so it is largely pointless to compare them.

It is a fine DAW but, imho is simply not easy to to learn.
It is fairly easy to use once you've learned it but you can say that about most things.

Danny1969 said:

Protools is actually the simplest to learn. Just 2 windows which are the Edit and the Mix. I have got loads of people into recording using old machines and old versions of Protools. It comes with everything you need really, inc superb synths, piano, organ, great suit of plugins. In lockdown a did a whole album with PT 8 running on a 2007 machine and an Mbox pro I paid £30 for. 

However I wouldn't recommend it as a DAW if you already have an interface as it needs specific interfaces to work. However you can on a good day score an Mbox interface and PT8 for £15. This will run on Win 10 

Pro Tools has two windows but edit tools and edit modes can be head scratchers unless someone takes you through it.
I'm a Pro Tools power user, write articles on PT and many other DAW's, AVID certified etc (I know you know this- saying it for the OP's benefit) and even I found it tricky to begin with.

It is easy to get up and running with recording audio, definitely.
Midi is still clunky and the way bussing works is great if you started on analogue consoles, but most people did not.
Logic's bussing is simply better for beginners (but obvs not applicable here as Mac only).
But for certain workflows, esp post production, it is very much still king of the hill.

@Numerov- Studio One is the easiest for beginners.
I don't think it is the best for professional work but a lot of old guard ex-Pro Tools hobbyists went over to it.
Pro's largely stayed with PT.

But this also depends on what you want to do with it.
Studio One is not the best for beginners wanting to make electronic music.
FL Studio or Ableton Live are better options.
If you want to only record audio and not do anything with Midi or virtual instruments then Adobe Audition is a fine choice, or Pro Tools. 

Also consider. not just your current needs but what you might need in the future.
If you said to me 'I want to make music at home but I'd like to get into audio post production or recording audio for a living' then I'd strongly urge you to go Pro Tools (or possibly Nuendo).
If you want to work on film scoring it would be 'get a mac and buy Logic'
If you said you were a natural geek who wanted to get inside the interface and like complex things then Reaper.

But, any DAW can be learned and the hump you need to get over is a 3-6 month thing with daily use.
How you learn a DAW is as important as the one you learn, probably more.

I wrote this article about how to move from Logic to Pro Tools.

https://www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/logic-to-pro-tools-what-i-wish-i-had-known-when-i-switched

It might give you some familiarity with some of the concepts and about how to approach learning.

In short though, break your learning down to specific tasks.
Figure out the basics, then start branching out into more sophisticated topic areas.
There are loads of videos out there.

Consider taking some private 1-1 lessons over Zoom (PM me if you want my rate) when you need to know specific things.

Good luck.

TTony

^^ Just about every paragraph earns its own wisdom point!

Bod

octatonic said:

andy_k said:

Reaper, without a doubt.
The quality of Kenny Gioia's tutorials make it a no brainer.

I disagree I am afraid.
Reaper is cheap to try but not easy to learn.
Certainly not easier to learn than other options.

You might have learned it (which is great) and perhaps it suits your way of thinking but plenty of people find it clunky and impenetrable. Personally I find the whole skins thing a bit gimmicky too and Cockos essentially handing over the development of the skins to the user base means it can be even more unfathomable to a beginner.

Kenny's videos are great though.

Reaper is a great DAW for people who need the DAW to be as close to free as possible,
Usually they will never go for something like Pro Tools or Nuendo, don't have the budget for it and don't have a need for the feature set so it is largely pointless to compare them.

It is a fine DAW but, imho is simply not easy to to learn.
It is fairly easy to use once you've learned it but you can say that about most things.

I'm pleased you said this, and it's spot on.  I'm not keen on recommending Reaper to beginners, and I used it for about 5 years.  It's incredibly flexible and customisable, but I'd say not the best for the beginner.  Anyway, the OP has already tried it and ruled it out.

Every DAW has it's idiosyncrasies, so try a few and see how you get on.  James' post above puts it perfectly.

andy_k

Bod said:

octatonic said:

andy_k said:

Reaper, without a doubt.
The quality of Kenny Gioia's tutorials make it a no brainer.

I disagree I am afraid.
Reaper is cheap to try but not easy to learn.
Certainly not easier to learn than other options.

You might have learned it (which is great) and perhaps it suits your way of thinking but plenty of people find it clunky and impenetrable. Personally I find the whole skins thing a bit gimmicky too and Cockos essentially handing over the development of the skins to the user base means it can be even more unfathomable to a beginner.

Kenny's videos are great though.

Reaper is a great DAW for people who need the DAW to be as close to free as possible,
Usually they will never go for something like Pro Tools or Nuendo, don't have the budget for it and don't have a need for the feature set so it is largely pointless to compare them.

It is a fine DAW but, imho is simply not easy to to learn.
It is fairly easy to use once you've learned it but you can say that about most things.

I'm pleased you said this, and it's spot on.  I'm not keen on recommending Reaper to beginners, and I used it for about 5 years.  It's incredibly flexible and customisable, but I'd say not the best for the beginner.  Anyway, the OP has already tried it and ruled it out.

Every DAW has it's idiosyncrasies, so try a few and see how you get on.  James' post above puts it perfectly.

With all due respect, I continue to disagree, and I would continue to suggest Reaper to anybody who wants to set out on recording  / mixing from a beginners perspective.
I was a beginner once, a long time ago, and have tried to work on most of the usual DAWs.
They are all similar in a few respects, with the aims of recording and mixing /mastering a finished musical track.
They all have their pros and cons, and for most of the time PT has been considered the 'industry standard', and if one wanted to some day work in a 'professional' recording studio, then having an intimate knowledge of PT was a requirement.
I'm afraid, these days, there really is no 'industry standard' anymore.
If I had invested a lot of money into a recording business, with hardware that worked with PT, I would be tied to it.
There are still business models that exist that cling on to the 'old' ways of doing things, ie, software copy protection, subscription services, tiers of product, etc, and I guess this is really a clumsy way of saying we have to move with the times.
Cockos model, of offering the software, fully functional, with a grace period until there is a reminder, is based on the old 'shareware' idea, and when the license is only £60 for around 2 years of updates, must be one of the cheapest available.
All DAWs, use extensive menu systems, and PT and Logic, at least, have a very strict set of shortcuts to get anything done.
I have used both a lot in the past, and often had to have sheets printed out of some of the less used ones, but I guess we all have different muscle memory, and for some it must be easy.
There is a level of customisation in most of these things, but nothing else comes close to Reaper in this regard, however, all this is personal choice and the skinning capability is not a necessity, but it can help make the software look clearer, and simpler on certain hardware.
I choose to stick to a simple, clean theme that looks good on my screen.
Reaper also uses 2 main screens, and they can both be displayed at the same time - in any position.
I maintain it is easy to learn, based on the resources available, and the time spent installing the software,opening a new project, checking a few settings, and creating and arming a track for recording is probably less than reading this post.
I sometimes try and open one of my old PT sessions, and am instantly reminded why I made the move to Reaper.

monquixote

I don't think being cheap is the only reason to use Reaper. I know plenty of people who have tried everything and are using it with many thousands pounds worth of plugins and hardware who could use anything. 

That said I came to it from being a very experienced Sonar user and I really didn't find it a seamless task to work out how to use Reaper, but once I'd spent a week or so on it, it was fine and I was as productive as with anything. Certainly I found learning Logic / Garage Band much easier and friendlier. (Note: if you have a recent iPad this works really well these days)

Studio One I found super easy to just get on with so I think this is still my top pick for a noob on Windows who wants to get into singer / songwriter type recording. 

I wouldn't advise an amateur demo creator to get into Pro Tools really, It just doesn't seem like a good fit. 

octatonic

andy_k said:

I'm afraid, these days, there really is no 'industry standard' anymore.

It is more nuanced now but there still are industry standards.
That doesn't mean that *everyone* is using X DAW.
There are and always will be exceptions.

Pro Tools completely owns the audio post production market.
It isn't really because of the feature set either- it is because companies have systems in place that rely on it and to use anything else would cost so much in downtime.

Also, features like frame edge sync are much easier to achieve with Pro Tools HDX.
If you don't know what it is then look here: LINKY
Nuendo will slave to it and there are some hardware options from Steinberg to achieve it but almost everyone does it using Pro Tools HDX and a SYNC X or SYNC HD.

Logic dominates in the film and television scoring sectors.
Yes, there are people like Tom Holkenborg using Cubase- but most score in Logic and mix in Pro Tools.
A lot of people are feeding directly from Logic into Pro Tools live.

Logic is also extremely strong in education- because companies buy Macs (to keep support costs down) and Logic is fairly cheap and requires far less support.
I have never seen an educational institution using Reaper in classrooms.
Yes it may be cheaper but supporting wouldn't be.

Education uses Logic, Pro Tools and Ableton Live, depending on the course.
Sibelius for orchestral scoring.

Ableton Live is the defacto standard in Electronic Music, although FL Studio is making inroads.

I am not talking Reaper down.
I have it, I use it.
Mostly I use it for recording off a live digital desk, taking 24 channels of audio over Dante Virtual Soundcard.
It is a cheap and effective way to track a live gig.

On customising:

"All DAWs, use extensive menu systems, and PT and Logic, at least, have a very strict set of shortcuts to get anything done."

If by strict you mean unchangeable then I'm afraid you are not correct.

Logic has always had customisable key commands.
I've used Logic since V2 and was part of the beta-testing team up until 2002 when Apple bought Emagic- it has always been possible to redefine them.

Pro Tools FINALLY introduced custom keyboard shortcuts a few years ago, I forget which version, maybe v2022.4.

For a long time that was Pro Tools' strength though.
The fact you couldn't change them meant, at a professional level, you just had to learn them and you'd be able to work any workstation you were sat in front of.
That really mattered at one point in time, when an entry level TDM PT rig was £20k and as an engineer you almost never had your own.
Less so now.

Both Logic and Pro Tools have quite good levels of customising thanks to Screensets (Logic) and Window Configurations (Pro Tools).
Yes, Reaper is more customisable. 
A lot more.

Customising is great for a certain type of user.

Personally I dislike it, because I have multiple machines and making them all look and feel the same is a pain in the ass.
A new machine takes 3 days for me to install and then having to customise a bunch of UI elements- forget it.

I have a few things I do- I use Steermouse to assign Pro Tools keyboard shortcuts and Logic key commands to mouse buttons.
Otherwise I keep them stock except for my many, many templates, which I built myself over a number of years.

I want all my systems to be as identical as possible so I can - installing with the default options is a good way to do that.
Also, when I work in other people's studios, it means I can just sit down and use it.

When a newbie is learning a DAW it doesn't help them to be able to change every element of the UI.
They need to concentrate on things that matter- understanding the interface, learning how to path audio and bus it, setting correct levels.

This is just my opinion though, YMMV.