Humidity panic

hassleham

I’ve just discovered that the room in my house where I keep most of my guitars is sitting around 67% humidity. I had no idea until a pulled an acoustic guitar out of its case after quite a long time and the top had arched and bridge started to lift. 

Obviously I’m looking at fixing the underlying issue with the building ASAP but my main question now is about the guitars being kept in there..  Do I buy a dehumidifier and bring the humidity setting down really slowly? Or just reduce the humidity to around 50% straight away and let the guitars acclimatise?

thanks for any advice.

ToneControl

Get a dehumidifer straight away, bring it down quickly AFAIK, you are taking it down to normal levels ~50%, not kiln drying it. 
You'll need to get the guitars out of the cases, or at least open the cases too.

The Meaco ones seem the best to me, buy direct, leave it for a day to settle then run it.
I've had unprecedented trouble with some bedrooms since last summer with the exceptional level of rain.

sev112

67% recently is not high, it is quite common in engaknd, i even got up to 71% last week.

Even if you get the room humidity down to 50%, once your turn your dehumidifier off, it will go up again quite quickly, so yo7 have to run the dehumidifier for about 2-3 days to get it to take moisture out of the room, curtains, carpets whatever.  We had it on every day in the first week we had it. Now it goes on for any room with washing in, and it gets an outing every so often in the guitar room last week when it hits 70.

but a dehumidifier if really good, as long as you do sensible things like having your windows open or on the first latch, don’t rely on en-suite fans so get a shower vac and get the family to use it after each shower of the cubicle (it’s a huge amount that it takes out)

 Was suprised that a guitar in a case hadn’t got more protection than that ?

good luck.

Kittyfrisk

50% is really not a normal average humididity in the UK, it is after all a fairly big & very varied area 
For those that like stats
https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/United-Kingdom/humidity-annual.php

ToneControl

Kittyfrisk said:

50% is really not a normal average humididity in the UK, it is after all a fairly big & very varied area 
For those that like stats
https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/United-Kingdom/humidity-annual.php

50% is the recommended RH for guitars

ToneControl

and for that matter, I normally use humidifiers in the winter

Kittyfrisk

ToneControl said:

Kittyfrisk said:

50% is really not a normal average humididity in the UK, it is after all a fairly big & very varied area 
For those that like stats
https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/United-Kingdom/humidity-annual.php

50% is the recommended RH for guitars

Edit: Achievable sources related to UK please 

Creed_Clicks

Where I am in Spain it is currently 50% but likely to go down in the next few months. Thanks for reminding me to look into this too!

Lewy

sev112 said:

 Was suprised that a guitar in a case hadn’t got more protection than that ?

Depends on how humid it is/was inside the case. I bought a custom shop Martin from a very well known shop and when I used a Humiditrak (bluetooth hygrometer that lives in your guitar case) it was over 70% RH inside there - god knows where they keep their cases - open in a boiler room? 

ToneControl

Kittyfrisk said:

ToneControl said:

Kittyfrisk said:

50% is really not a normal average humididity in the UK, it is after all a fairly big & very varied area 
For those that like stats
https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/United-Kingdom/humidity-annual.php

50% is the recommended RH for guitars

Edit: Achievable sources related to UK please 

It's not specific to the UK. You can look it up in the website of all the guitar makers.
The major guitar builders process the wood in the instrument to be most stable at around 45-55% humidity, so as to be the most resilient when RH moves away from that. 

To be honest, we have a very moderate climate in the UK, and guitars will not usually self-destruct completely like they will in very cold regions in the winter, or in 95% humidity  areas, but they will play badly when dry or wet. The biggest risk in the UK is usually low humidity in a dry, centrally heated house in the winter, when RH can drop below 30%, you can get various problems that require repairs: fret sprout, cracked soundboard, etc.

Have a read:
https://www.taylorguitars.com/support/maintenance/symptoms-dry-guitar

When we make a guitar, the wood first is dried, or “seasoned,” and acclimated to a certain moisture content. As a result, all guitars leave the factory in the same condition, and all will react more or less the same when exposed to changes in humidity.

Our factory is climate-controlled to maintain a temperature of 74 degrees and a relative humidity of 47 percent. This consistency causes the wood to equalize at a specified moisture content ideal for building guitars. As the wood’s moisture content changes, so does the size of the wood. Spruce, in particular, shrinks and expands a tremendous amount as it gains and loses moisture. For example, let’s say we condition a spruce top in a room that is 47 percent RH, and then cut that spruce to a width of 16 inches. If we then were to lower the room’s RH to 30 percent, that same piece of spruce would shrink to 15.9 inches in width — shrinkage of almost 1/8 of an inch!  If, instead, we were to raise the room’s RH to 60 percent, the spruce would swell to 16.06 inches, an expansion of almost 1/16 of an inch. While our wood drying and conditioning methods minimize this movement, wood is still wood, so even after it becomes a guitar, significant fluctuations in humidity will cause the wood to shrink or grow.

The reason we prefer 47 percent RH is because it is a very “normal” or “median” humidity. When built at that RH level, a guitar can be exposed to more or less humidity and still perform well. The more extreme the temperature and/or humidity fluctuations, the sooner the guitar will be adversely affected.

Tannin

Don't panic!

Guitars are reasonably forgiving things. Let's get some hard numbers from recognised high-quality acoustic guitar makers as a guide, and remember that solid acoustic guitars are the most vulnerable. Anything that an all-solid acoustic tolerates is no problem at all for an electric or a laminated acoustic.

* Taylor: 45%-55% is ideal, up to 70% is not a problem for reasonably short periods (several weeks).

* Maton 50% is ideal, anything between 35% and 65% is not an issue.

* Furch: 45%-65% in areas where the guitar is stored long-term.

* Guild, Martin, and many other makers recommend an ideal range (typically 45%-55%) but don't put numbers on allowable variation. 

* Nearly all makers point out that the worst thing is rapid changes in either temperature or humidity. 

Simple rule-of-thumb: if you are comfortable, your guitar should be fine. But buy a hygrometer and make sure you don't get into the real danger zones (below 35% or above 70%). Other than that, breathe easy. 

hassleham

So I bought a hygrometer and have been monitoring this in my house and it fluctuates between around 58 up to 71. Have been opening a lot more windows which has helped to regulate it. However in the last week or so we've been up to 75% even with windows open (thanks to the UK weather at the moment i think).

So i've gone and ordered a dehumidifier/air purifier. This will put my mind at ease about the guitars but also be a bit of an experiment to see if it improves our sleep and general health because apparently it can have a negative impact on your health and I seem to have a permanent cold.. 

RaymondLin

I bought one of these from Aliexpress. You will see there is a wifi icon.  It has an app, which you can set up alerts to the phone and send you a ping when it is outside a range you set.  This way I don't need to pay attention to it, but rather it let me know when it requires attention.  Cost about £5.

ToneControl

I don't run dehumidifiers or humidifiers during the UK summer, and I am very fussy about looking after my acoustic guitars.

(Other than a dehumidifier in the room that has a roof leak)

robinbowes

RaymondLin said:

I bought one of these from Aliexpress. You will see there is a wifi icon.  It has an app, which you can set up alerts to the phone and send you a ping when it is outside a range you set.  This way I don't need to pay attention to it, but rather it let me know when it requires attention.  Cost about £5.

Do you happen to have a link for that?

Thanks!

R.

RaymondLin

robinbowes said:

RaymondLin said:

I bought one of these from Aliexpress. You will see there is a wifi icon.  It has an app, which you can set up alerts to the phone and send you a ping when it is outside a range you set.  This way I don't need to pay attention to it, but rather it let me know when it requires attention.  Cost about £5.

Do you happen to have a link for that?

Thanks!

R.

The one in the photo is this one which I use at work.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006571613577.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.15.63bd1802wgfVbR

The one in my guitar room is this one.  They do exactly the same thing, not sure why this one cheaper!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006553997650.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.5.63bd1802wgfVbR

hassleham

@RaymondLin ;
Very useful, thanks!

Offset

Thanks @RaymondLin - ordered!

RaymondLin

Offset said:

Thanks @RaymondLin - ordered!

It's really clever for the money.  Because it is technically online, I don't even need to set the clock.  It sets everything itself.

You do need 3 x AAA batteries though...yeah, 3, not sure why the odd number.  I just use some Amazon basic rechargeables.

hassleham

Ordered! The cheap one seems limited to 1 per customer 

RaymondLin

Here it is with my older, non-smart one.  They are usually within 1% of each other so it’s accurate /close enough for this purpose.