New solid construction acoustics from Hartwood

HerbieTheRadDorklift

Saw these had popped online when looking at Gear4music's new electrics.

https://www.gear4music.com/Acoustic_Guitars/Hartwood?page=1&filters%5B835%5D=25344&_gl=1*px0wr5*_up*MQ..*_ga*MjEyMTcxOTM0MS4xNzE3NjIzOTE4*_ga_0WF1R5QW3K*MTcxNzYyMzkxOC4xLjEuMTcxNzYyMzkzOS4wLjAuMzU2NTA2NDU2#filter

I know for a fact these are solid construction with exception of the Koa GS mini model (laminate back and sides). Very nice acoustics for the money.

Tannin

Made by Cort. Don't know who badges them.

DavidR

Only looked at the Koa GS Travel since would only be interested in that. Rather confusingly described as OM and Travel guitar but with lower bout of 36.5cm I suspect the latter. Solid top, bone nut and saddle. Saddle looks to be compensated on the B and the bottom E which is interesting. Nut width of 43mm. Fretboard made of Purpleheart which I had to look up and is a "colourful very durable Latin American hardwood sometimes called Amaranth". OK. Not CITES listed but may be a description for more than one species apparently.

Pictures look good don't they. I agree, seems to tick a lot of boxes construction wise, especially if the rosette and purfling are real. Full marks for the arm bevel too.

Astonishing value for £250 but, as ever, what does it play and sound like?

Thanks @HerbieTheRadDorklift. Yet another example of a brand really trying to impress at the budget end. Marvellous starter or even student guitar for someone.

:-)

HerbieTheRadDorklift

Tannin said:

Made by Cort. Don't know who badges them.

Incorrect, they're a house brand. Very well made though. These are very much like the "Sonata" Hartwood electro line if you've played/seen them. 

Tannin

The Heartwood natural series of guitars are the product of a collaboration between our Leeds craftsmen and one of the world's leading Korean musical instrument manufacturers.

 
"One of the world's leading Korean musical instrument manufacturers" is code for Cort. 

HerbieTheRadDorklift

Tannin said:

The Heartwood natural series of guitars are the product of a collaboration between our Leeds craftsmen and one of the world's leading Korean musical instrument manufacturers.

 
"One of the world's leading Korean musical instrument manufacturers" is code for Cort. 

That's.. interesting. Where did you see that? 

Tannin

I just searched Google for "Heartwood guitars" and something like "Who makes Heartwood guitars?" and found two or three different people on forums saying they were Corts, with no-one saying otherwise (which was suggestive) and eventually searched for the quoted phrase (which was cited by someone selling one), finding it at https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/heartwood-acoustic-bass-handmade-464208755 - not an actual retailer's site but who would make something like that up?

Mind you, if you close your eyes and pick up any random £300 guitar in any random shop and say "This actually a Cort" you'll be right about one-third of the time. If you say "This actually either a Cort or a Samik" you'll be right two-thirds of the time, maybe more than that. Those two are the giants of guitar manufacturing. Outside of the high end, the number of brands which are really reselling Cort or Samik is just mind-blowing.

HerbieTheRadDorklift

The brand isn't Heartwood though

DavidR

Whatever. Just assume Asia somewhere. Only China/Korea/Malaysia/Indonesia/Vietnam have musical instrument industries, working practices and business models that could produce such a guitar at sub £300. 

Just be grateful for wide choice of acoustics currently, reasonable use of sustainable woods and desirable features of guitars which head our way from the “looks like US or European, but actually Made in Asia” way of doing things. OK it’s a bit of a con but people aren’t fools. 

stylesforfree

DavidR said:

Whatever. Just assume Asia somewhere. Only China/Korea/Malaysia/Indonesia/Vietnam have musical instrument industries, working practices and business models that could produce such a guitar at sub £300. 

Just be grateful for wide choice of acoustics currently, reasonable use of sustainable woods and desirable features of guitars which head our way from the “looks like US or European, but actually Made in Asia” way of doing things. OK it’s a bit of a con but people aren’t fools. 

Definitely not Korea, a lot of Korean made acoustics are made to a very high quality these days and are easily on par with Japanese made guitars and you're lucky to find anything made in Korea these days for less than £800.

For example: Gretsch moved all their electromatic production to Indonesia and China around 2019. 

Everything that was made in Korea from 2000-2018 is now made in China or Indonesia. 

Dave_Mc

I'm probably not looking at the right ones or something like that, but the ones I clicked on all seemed to just be solid top, and (presumably) laminate back and sides?

menamestom

Dave_Mc said:

I'm probably not looking at the right ones or something like that, but the ones I clicked on all seemed to just be solid top, and (presumably) laminate back and sides?

Yeah that's what I was thinking. You would think 'Featuring a premium mahogany body finished with a solid Sitka spruce top' means the body at least is laminate.

If you want cheap import all solid guitars, then Herley Benton seem to be the only ones unless these prove to be.

BillDL

Some of the nicest sounding acoustic guitars I have played have had solid tops and laminate bodies.  Of course, "nicest sounding" is subjective and highly personal.  There's too many people that hear "laminate" and think of cheap plywood as used in those £49 pink guitars that people buy for kids at Christmas.  In reality the laminates that companies like Yamaha use for their budget to intermediate level guitars comprises very tightly bonded and highly compressed layers of decent wood veneer that ends up stiff and light and vibrates almost as well as solid wood, but with extra resilience to seasonal changes and knocks.  The soundboard is the most important sound producing area of the guitar, and solid wood certainly tends to make most guitars sound better than if the soundboards were laminate.  The back is usually pressed up against the player's body and really doesn't vibrate much at all, and the material that forms the bent sides (ribs) really doesn't have much bearing on the overall sound.  If guitar makers need to shave off some production costs to make an affordable range of guitars, forming the back and sides from laminate is an obvious choice and unless listeners are aficionados they would find it nearly impossible to tell the difference between an all solid acoustic and one with a solid top and laminate back and sides.  It would be highly unusual to find an own-brand acoustic for £300 and under that doesn't have laminate back and sides.

HerbieTheRadDorklift

Like I said, I know for a fact these are solid wood. The copywriter has it wrong. Happy to elaborate in DMs 

guitarjack66

HerbieTheRadDorklift said:

Like I said, I know for a fact these are solid wood. The copywriter has it wrong. Happy to elaborate in DMs 

Hi Mr Hartwood.

HerbieTheRadDorklift

guitarjack66 said:

HerbieTheRadDorklift said:

Like I said, I know for a fact these are solid wood. The copywriter has it wrong. Happy to elaborate in DMs 

Hi Mr Hartwood.

I wish! 

menamestom

HerbieTheRadDorklift said:

Like I said, I know for a fact these are solid wood. The copywriter has it wrong. Happy to elaborate in DMs 

Interesting, that does make them an exceptionally good prospect for the price.
Are the classicals all solid as well?

BillDL said:

Some of the nicest sounding acoustic guitars I have played have had solid tops and laminate bodies.  Of course, "nicest sounding" is subjective and highly personal.  There's too many people that hear "laminate" and think of cheap plywood as used in those £49 pink guitars that people buy for kids at Christmas.  In reality the laminates that companies like Yamaha use for their budget to intermediate level guitars comprises very tightly bonded and highly compressed layers of decent wood veneer that ends up stiff and light and vibrates almost as well as solid wood, but with extra resilience to seasonal changes and knocks.  The soundboard is the most important sound producing area of the guitar, and solid wood certainly tends to make most guitars sound better than if the soundboards were laminate.  The back is usually pressed up against the player's body and really doesn't vibrate much at all, and the material that forms the bent sides (ribs) really doesn't have much bearing on the overall sound.  If guitar makers need to shave off some production costs to make an affordable range of guitars, forming the back and sides from laminate is an obvious choice and unless listeners are aficionados they would find it nearly impossible to tell the difference between an all solid acoustic and one with a solid top and laminate back and sides.  It would be highly unusual to find an own-brand acoustic for £300 and under that doesn't have laminate back and sides.

I agree with everything you have said there and being all solid doesn’t make a guitar inherently better.  I’d have no issue in having a guitar with laminate back and sides, but if they really are solid it does make them stand out from the crowd at the price point.

But like you say, the top definitely contributes to the sound most.  I’d rather have a greay solid top / lam guitar than an average all solid guitar.

HerbieTheRadDorklift

 Only the koa one is laminate back and sides

Jez6345789

One of the things I have found with a lot of Chinese OEM acoustic guitar and have never tried these is they are often over built. Its like here is the Martin Taylor brace size and we will simply add 20-25% heavier bracing to over come the risk of returns. So whatever advantage solid wood back and sides offers is usually is a non event as the top is heavy and not overly responsive. 

There are obvious exceptions Corts own triple O that I own the bracing is almost exactly that of a pre-war Martin in terms of size positioning and shape and after 5 years of use sounds pretty good for a £399 guitar. I am also a firm believer that solid wood as much as its a nice to have for sides its not much of an upgrade when high end luthiers are layering their sides for greater mass and performance. 

Tannin

For sides, solid wood makes no difference worth mentioning except that it is more prone to splitting or breaking. Sides essentially do two jobs: (1) hold the top and the back apart, and (2) more-or-less seal the chamber so that you get appropriate resonance. Where you see laminated parts in high-end guitars, it's practically always the sides. Some makers go to some trouble to add extra weight to the sides (of whatever construction).  

For backs, solid wood is much to be preferred. 

Back to the original topic: if you are going to buy a Cort, why not buy one with an actual Cort badge on it? 

BillDL

I've been searching around the Gear4Music website and individual guitar descriptions to find where there is any mention of who manufactures their acoustic guiatrs and where.  I haven't found anything that would tend to imply they are made by Cort.  Where did you see that?