Single 12" speaker for Mesa LSC 100w?

Ché

Recently picked up a Lonestar Classic but, much like the Special, the stock Black Shadow C90 speaker is far too dark (IMO) for the lead channel and I was hoping to pick up a pair of Celestion Golds. 

Considering the amp weighs a ton I've got my sights on a empty 1x12 combo shell for it but I'm wondering what speaker to use. The Gold's are only rated at 50w. I know there's a Celestion G12K-100 that's rated at 100w but I wouldn't know if that sounds similar to the Gold's.

Anyone have any suggestions?

ICBM

It's actually hard to find a speaker rated for a true 100W amp that's likely to be bright enough for you. The G12K-100 isn't actually all that robust by Celestion's usual standards and I probably wouldn't bother - it's not a very characterful speaker either.

There is one, but you most likely won't like the weight or the cost... although it has a good track record in Mesa amps.

EVM12L.

But it is possible that one EV weighs more than two Golds.

Ché

How much more would two celestial golds in the Lonestar 2x12 weigh? I just picked the amp up now (with both arms around it, not the handle) and it's not THAT bad to carry. 

I guess if I opted for the 1x12 Gold combo I'd have to use it with a 12" Gold extension cab. Even then I'd worry about potentially spikes above 100w. (Granted I'd have spend 2/3's the price of what I paid for the amp for that setup!)

bandmaster188

Jensen blackbird could be the ticket. 100w Alnico. Not tried one myself, just a suggestion! http://www.hotroxuk.com/jensen-blackbird-jp12-100bb-alnico-speaker.html

Ché

Thanks for the suggestion mate  

Ché

http://www.watfordvalves.com/soundfactory.asp

Not much to go on but gives me somewhat of an idea. The Blackbird sounds nice in comparison to the Gold. 

ICBM

bandmaster188 said:

Jensen blackbird could be the ticket. 100w Alnico.

I wouldn't put a 100W Jensen in a 100W amp if you're likely to crank it. (Blackbird or any other model.)

They sound nice in the demos I've heard, but Jensen power ratings are quite optimistic.

Even the G12K-100 is less robust than other Celestions, in my experience - apparently this is because it's actually a G12T-75 cone with a heavier magnet. I've seen a couple of blown ones in 100W amps, even though these were solid-state where the effective power into 8 ohms is a lot less than 100W.

Having thought about it, you're definitely better getting two lighter speakers than trying to find one which will handle the full 100W and has the right sort of tone, I think - apart from the EV there really aren't that many candidates, and most are quite dark sounding, as a lot of higher-powered drivers are really designed for bass or PA. The EV was originally a PA speaker.

hywelg

ICBM said:

There is one, but you most likely won't like the weight or the cost... although it has a good track record in Mesa amps.

EVM12L.

Why does everyone always cite cost against an EVM-12L? Its a fallacy, its cheaper than a gold and quite a few other high end speakers.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/ev_evm_12l_classic_8_ohm.htm
http://www.dv247.com/amplifiers/electro-voice-evm12l--207965
http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/electrovoice-evm12l-classic-300-watt-8ohm-guitar-speaker-p-2230.html

Ché

How does the EV sound in comparison to the gold? Even if it's heavier in a LS 1x12 combo it's easier to handle size wise than the LS 2x12 combo.

ICBM

hywelg said:

Why does everyone always cite cost against an EVM-12L? Its a fallacy, its cheaper than a gold and quite a few other high end speakers.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/ev_evm_12l_classic_8_ohm.htm
http://www.dv247.com/amplifiers/electro-voice-evm12l--207965
http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/electrovoice-evm12l-classic-300-watt-8ohm-guitar-speaker-p-2230.html

Interesting - it's years since I priced one, and they were always far more expensive than other speakers… presumably other people are doing the same.

Thanks for the correction!

I don't actually like them for guitar, to be honest. But that doesn't help because one of my favourite of all speakers is the Mesa/Celestion C90 which Ché is finding too dark.

How does it sound? "Stiff" and "precise" in my opinion.

Ché

Thanks for the info guys. I'm leaning towards two Celestion Golds (my bank balance isn't). I think the head and 2x12 cab is probably my best bet. Might get some dimensions and look into building something nice.

Ché

Just a thought, would two Golds be enough for the LSC, I could run it at 50w but I'm taking the rule of thumb that I'd need a cab rated at 200w RMS.

FelineGuitars

I had a pair of EVM12s in my Rivera 2x12 cabinet when I first got it and it took two people to even lift the cabinet. I switched them out for my favourite Celestion Sidewinders and lightened the load by half.

ICBM

Ché said:

Just a thought, would two Golds be enough for the LSC, I could run it at 50w but I'm taking the rule of thumb that I'd need a cab rated at 200w RMS.

Not with Celestions, at least not of the better models.

How power ratings are applied varies between manufacturers - Celestion are by far the most conservative I know of, their speakers seem to be mostly rated for 'an overdriven amp of the stated power', ie they will take possibly up to twice that amount of true electrical power. Other manufacturers seem to go more on the true electrical power, so you need to be more careful. Fane are particularly under-rated in my experience, Jensen and Eminence somewhere in between those and Celestion.

But if in doubt - and particularly with such expensive speakers as Golds - it's better to err on the safe side! That said I wouldn't worry about putting two in a 100W amp that's unlikely to get fully cranked on a distorted sound. If you never set the overdrive channel much louder than the maximum clean volume you can achieve on the clean channel, you'll be safe.

Ché

In light of that I have a few options:

1. Convert the LSC head into a 1x12 Celestion Gold combo. Run at 50w, add an extension can to run at 100w.

2. Convert the LSC to a head (£££) and purchase a 2x12 Celestion Gold cab (£££)

3. Convert LSC to 1x12 combo with either WGS Blakhawk or EVM12L

Choices, choices...