Getting a low action tips.

markblack

I threw a cheap neck i bought of ebay on to an old strat type a mate gave me that he had in his loft. to be honest i didn't think it would come to much but to my suprise it sounds good.

The only problem is i can't really get the action as low as I would like, it's probably about 4mm at the 12th fret.

I've adjusted the saddles, adjusted the truss rod, but i can't get the low action.

Frets seem level after a check.

The neck came with a pre cut nut.

It's there anything i could try? 
Would a shim help? 
Could it be the nut cut too low? 

I'm just naive thinking i can get a low action from a cheap neck?

It is playable, only it's a bit of fight and I'm soft

Any thoughts, suggestions most welcome. 

Cheers. Mark

ToneControl

put a capo on the first fret. If that feels much better, then the nut needs adjustment.

SteveRobinson

Why can't you get a low action? What happens when you lower the strings?

markblack

@SteveRobinson just a lot of fret buzz. Especially up past the 12th.

@ToneControl thanks I'll try that.

markblack

If it helps a pic of the nut.

paulnb57

Throwing a cheap neck onto a seemingly compatible body is not necessarily a guarantee of succsess

Go back to basics and do a from scratch set up, I cant imagine a high nut giving a 4mm action, set the neck relief first. then adjust the height of the trem using the pivot screws, drop the trem down as low as it will go with the plate the saddles rest on level with the face of the body 

Now adjust the saddles and see if you can get a low action, if the action is still too high with the trem as far down as it will go and the saddles at their lowest then try a shim in the neck pocket

You should be able to get a reasonably low action with a bit of trial and error, however it might buzz at some places up and down the neck, there is a good chance the frets will need levelling and polishing, also the nut action will likely need some attention

Once you have an action you are happy with then you can decide on having a floating trem or decked
Good Luck

Winny_Pooh

"Frets seem level"
How did you check?

First check the relief and set the truss rod to have a high e's thicknes or just less of a gap between the 8th fret top and bottom of the E or B when holding the string as the first and last fret. Then re-adjust action.

If you are getting buzzing up high then subtle relief effectively kicks up the 21rst/22nd fret.
I always do subtle fallaway fret levelling from the 15th fret and more aggressively lower the highest 2 frets as they are the regular culprits for choking high E bends.

I've on occasion done fall away levelling on two guitars (with some spot levelling) to get a big improvement. 

Do you have a fret rocker?

ToneControl

markblack said:

@SteveRobinson just a lot of fret buzz. Especially up past the 12th.

@ToneControl thanks I'll try that.

if open strings ring clear, and strings fretted high up buzz, then there is something wrong

Read up on how to look along the neck to see the neck relief
The normal test is to press with a finger  at fret one, fret at the first fret above the body join with the right hand little finger, and then tap the string half way in between with your right index finger.
Do this on all the strings. Try it on guitars that play well first to calibrate your brain.
It should tap down a tiny bit, and ring a bit.
It should not require a large string movement to tap it down to the fret - that would be too much relief
If you tap it and it's already touching frets, and doesn't ring, there is too little relief.
Then you can look along the neck with your eye near the strings. I do it from the headstock end, you can see if the frets are curving away from the strings around fret 8-10, or if they are in a straight line, or even if they curve towards the strings.
These sightings should agree with what you detected in the tests above

Also looking along the neck you can see if there is a hump where the highest frets get closer to the strings compared to frets 12-14. If there is, then you won't be able to adjust that away, it would need professional work on the frets or the neck..


At the nut end, find a guitar that plays well. 
On each string, press and hold at fret 1 with your index finger, then fret 2 with finger #2, press and release a few times at fret 2.  
Is there much difference in how much effort and distance there is between this and when you release fret 1, and repeat the experiment with just finger #2 at fret 2? 
Try again on the suspect guitar. there should be a small difference, not a big difference.
The other test is to fret at fret 3, then tap the string between the nut and fret 1, on fret 1, and between fret 2+3.
It should be a tiny movement to tap it down, with a noticeable noise. If there is no tap and no noise, the nut is cut too low, and the open string probably buzzes. Much more often the nut slot is cut too high, and a huge movement is needed to tap the string down. Test this on all your guitars, and then on the suspect one, then on a good guitar again.
This tells you whether your nut needs the slots deepening. On a new guitar this is normally required, except for a small number of high-end manufacturers.

In fact The nut has been too high on most second-hand guitars I have bought, especially on USA Gibsons.

ToneControl

Can you tell us what neck it is anyway?

markblack

Thanks all for the replies.

@Winny_Pooh I tried the frets with a metal string tool, the small square one. And tried it across 3 frets to see if any rocked. 

@ToneControl just a very cheap no name neck came as a pair for £40 and thanks for the detailed reply.

markblack

@paulnb57 thanks for that.

NelsonP

Fender style necks have a tendency bend up slightly at the neck end, sort of like a ski jump in profile. There's even a name for that kind of profile - rising tongue. Needs a fret level to fix. Could be that.

https://dogwoodguitars.com/bolt-on-necks-high-tongue-frets/

andy_k

Truss rod only affects the part of the neck that is outside the neck pocket, and then only really at the mid point.
Most people initially set things up with the neck flat, and cheap necks will only have the frets put in, not levelled / dressed to suit the player.
I like quite a high action, and it is easy to cut a nut too low, if you don't have the right tools.
This weather has been playing havoc with my main instrument ( unfinished maple neck- one piece ), and at some point I will have to get the strings off and the neck pickup out the way to reduce the relief- which is visibly too much, but be careful what you wish for, and you might find you do in fact need some relief, depending on how hard you play.
I hate buzzing, so I tend to go on the high side, which makes it a bit harder to set intonation as I also could do with my nut being a little lower, but it is a tele, and chords sound in tune around the 7th fret, I just got used to playing this way.
The string, when pressed down at the first and last frets, acts as a straight edge,and you have to remember that the part of the neck which is screwed to the body will not be affected by string tension, hence the fact that some people allow for this to be a high point when dressing frets, just from experience.
You always start a set up with the fretboard level, not the frets, which requires a special notched straight edge, which most people don't have, so in your case, I would guess it can only go so low, unless you have a full level and dress, which will probably cost more than the neck did.
It's a fairly sad fact, that a new neck will usually be cheaper than a re-fret, even when you spend a fair bit ( Allparts usually benefit from a fret dress, and they are licensed Fender parts )
Sometimes, it makes the outlay for SS frets a very real consideration, as at least they will last considerably longer than 'normal' frets, which can soon need attention, if you play a lot on the same instrument ( some frets will wear a lot, some will never get used )
A cross we have to bear.

markblack

@andy_k thanks for the reply