Second hand prices

mankytom

I am becoming fascinated watching second hand guitar prices.

The variation of what people price things at is really interesting.. 

there seems to be a relatively recent phenomenon of the used guitar which is more expensive than the current selling price of the same model. 

For example there is an SG Standard that is a few years old on Facebook for £1400, Andertons currently selling them for £1399..

Obviously there is a mark up for some vintage guitars or years with specific features that are special and no longer available, but I don’t understand the mindset of pricing your guitar at more than the cost of a new one..


Do people have a rule of thumb for an appropriate second hand price or does it vary significantly from model to model?

Bigsby

mankytom said:

For example there is an SG Standard that is a few years old on Facebook for £1400, Andertons currently selling them for £1399..

This sort of thing certainly happens, but also, are you sure it's the exact same model? SG Standards at Andertons vary from £1,399 to £2,199. A Gibson that cost £2,199 new could easily sell form more than £1,400 if in good condition (based on new price - 33%).

Funkfingers

A lot of sellers are shamelessly trying it on. If superficial research suggests that the best price ever attained on Reverb was £900, today's listing will be £900.

The best exemplar of this insanity is Essex Recording Studio. Think of a number, double it and tack something on to pay for a wee snort.

daisie_guitar

"but I don’t understand the mindset of pricing your guitar at more than the cost of a new one.."

It's either "see, honey, I'm trying to sell it, but noone is interested" or "it's brand new, mint condition, only played it a couple of times, identical to the one in the store, why should I ask for less".

"Do people have a rule of thumb for an appropriate second hand price or does it vary significantly from model to model?"

70% of current brand new price, if in perfect condition, is a good starting point, 60% is still realistic usually. 

TTony

Here's another perspective.

Let's say the RRP of a standard, non-limited, generally available guitar is £1000.

RRP includes VAT (so guitar =£833), and shop price includes their overheads, profit margin, etc.  So cost of guitar to shop is, approx £500 (to keep it simple, ignore all the other margins in the sales chain for now).  £500 is the intrinsic value of the guitar, in brand new condition and shop warrantied.

What makes it worth more than that, used and with no warranty?  

OK, so there's a little bit of supply and demand to consider; maybe someone really wants one of those, but can't afford the full £1000, and doesn't want to wait for the inevitable Black Friday, Summer Special, Blue Monday, New Year, Prime Day deal.  So there's some want-it-now-but-not-at-full-price demand to factor in and that will vary by individual.

But recent s/h prices aren't rational and prices always revert to a rational level and smooth out the peaks and troughs.  I'd say s/h prices are due a "readjustment".  See also prices of s/h cars.

 

Gilly

There are a lot deluded sellers is the short answer.

rlw

While agreeing with much of the above, especially the ones priced higher than new, even when people price stuff sensibly it doesn't sell.   

There seems to be two things going on which are really opposites.   Daft prices and a reluctance to pay sensible prices, so both buyers and sellers being unrealistic.

Used prices are, of course, subjective but take a look at some of the guitars on here, some for months, which haven't sold despite being at pretty much rock bottom prices.

swiller

Best thing, if fascinated, is to look at sold e bay prices. It easy and it relates to actual sold on auctions. Buy it now a bit different with invisible best offer accepted. Would never buy off facebook market place, its a swamp of bots and scammers.

For me would advise not to pay more than...
1500 for a modern les paul standard
800 for a 90s/00s USA std strat or tele
2300 for a CS strat or tele.
3000 for a les paul custom, built in custom shop. 

Because they are out there at those prices. On here i think people get turned off either by a) Low fretcount sellers b) continuous price drops on adverts with daft prices upon initial ad. The good value ones from sincere sellers at rock bottom prices get snapped up within 48 hrs usually.

Bigsby

swiller said:

 The good value ones from sincere sellers at rock bottom prices get snapped up within 48 hrs usually.

Presumably to a bedroom dealer, judging by the number of topics we see on that subject. 

Stevepage

Too many bedroom dealers trying to make profit on guitars like they did during the pandemic. The market needs a big correction but who knows if we’ll actually see one

Funkfingers

rlw said:

There seem to be two things going on which are really opposites. Daft prices and a reluctance to pay sensible prices, so both buyers and sellers being unrealistic.

I am currently involved in another variation of transactional reluctance with an eBay seller in the same town as me.

The seller is unwilling to amend his listing to include free Collection In Person. I am unwilling to pay for the item be whizzed up to Swansea and back, exposing it to the risk of damage or theft by a courier driver.

eBay takes its cut from the final sale total. It is in the seller's financial interest to agree to CIP. Duh!

Please note. There has been no suggestion by either party of an off-eBay transaction. 

I can only conclude that the seller is technophobic about the Q code identity check system.

BobHillman

Have you considered the possibility that the seller doesn't have a smartphone, and does his Ebay listings from a PC?

TTony

BobHillman said:

Have you considered the possibility that the seller doesn't have a smartphone

Seriously, does anyone NOT have a smartphone?

Kittyfrisk

TTony said:

BobHillman said:

Have you considered the possibility that the seller doesn't have a smartphone

Seriously, does anyone NOT have a smartphone?

Paul Merton.

Nerine

Even realistically priced stuff doesn’t sell because people want a “bargain” or to feel like they’ve “won” the deal. 

Jez6345789

I look at a lot of 2nd hand prices a lot of bedroom sellers got onboard during Covid and have gone all in on stock. I often feel there are genuine fair prices on here.

TTony

Kittyfrisk said:

TTony said:

BobHillman said:

Have you considered the possibility that the seller doesn't have a smartphone

Seriously, does anyone NOT have a smartphone?

Paul Merton.

Now you mention it, I remember him tweeting that he didn't ever use one.

Snags

TTony said:

Here's another perspective.

Let's say the RRP of a standard, non-limited, generally available guitar is £1000.

RRP includes VAT (so guitar =£833), and shop price includes their overheads, profit margin, etc.  So cost of guitar to shop is, approx £500 (to keep it simple, ignore all the other margins in the sales chain for now).  £500 is the intrinsic value of the guitar, in brand new condition and shop warrantied.

What makes it worth more than that, used and with no warranty?  

OK, so there's a little bit of supply and demand to consider; maybe someone really wants one of those, but can't afford the full £1000, and doesn't want to wait for the inevitable Black Friday, Summer Special, Blue Monday, New Year, Prime Day deal.  So there's some want-it-now-but-not-at-full-price demand to factor in and that will vary by individual.

But recent s/h prices aren't rational and prices always revert to a rational level and smooth out the peaks and troughs.  I'd say s/h prices are due a "readjustment".  See also prices of s/h cars.

 

You can't really take the VAT out of the equation like that when calculating a secondhand price, because if you want a new one you can't avoid paying it (unless you're VAT registered, but that then complicates any later sale so eventually it becomes a real cost to someone). So the choice is always between new at 100% or used at <100% where 100% is the amount that would go over the counter in the shop. 

Obviously you're right when considering the intrinsic materials and baked in labour costs, but that's not how either the shop or secondhand price is set anyway.

markj

TTony said:

BobHillman said:

Have you considered the possibility that the seller doesn't have a smartphone

Seriously, does anyone NOT have a smartphone?

My in-laws.

OilCityPickups

Funkfingers said:

rlw said:

There seem to be two things going on which are really opposites. Daft prices and a reluctance to pay sensible prices, so both buyers and sellers being unrealistic.

I am currently involved in another variation of transactional reluctance with an eBay seller in the same town as me.

The seller is unwilling to amend his listing to include free Collection In Person. I am unwilling to pay for the item be whizzed up to Swansea and back, exposing it to the risk of damage or theft by a courier driver.

eBay takes its cut from the final sale total. It is in the seller's financial interest to agree to CIP. Duh!

Please note. There has been no suggestion by either party of an off-eBay transaction. 

I can only conclude that the seller is technophobic about the Q code identity check system.

Or like me ... is not fantastically happy about total strangers turning up to my gaff. Not everyone is you know. 

SlopeSoarer

Nerine said:

Even realistically priced stuff doesn’t sell because people want a “bargain” or to feel like they’ve “won” the deal. 

My opinion is that if prices are realistic, they will sell... but one persons realistic isn't always anothers. Other than that poor descriptions, rubbish photos and niche items don't help.

I suspect there are very few people who don't put wiggle room in their classified ads.