Second hand prices

mankytom

Bigsby said:

This sort of thing certainly happens, but also, are you sure it's the exact same model? SG Standards at Andertons vary from £1,399 to £2,199. A Gibson that cost £2,199 new could easily sell form more than £1,400 if in good condition (based on new price - 33%).

I can’t see it now but it was just a standard standard, heritage cherry…

I guess it was just an example though

another might have been the silver skies that I saw for 1900 when guitar guitar had them for 1800

daisie_guitar said:

"but I don’t understand the mindset of pricing your guitar at more than the cost of a new one.."

It's either "see, honey, I'm trying to sell it, but noone is interested" or "it's brand new, mint condition, only played it a couple of times, identical to the one in the store, why should I ask for less".

"Do people have a rule of thumb for an appropriate second hand price or does it vary significantly from model to model?"

70% of current brand new price, if in perfect condition, is a good starting point, 60% is still realistic usually. 

I hadn’t considered that they might not actually want to sell it. That’s clever

I guess the thing this leads to is that it is difficult to be the one who prices things sensibly. You flog yours for a reasonable price, but then can’t buy anything comparable with the cash - and inevitably see yours flipped back onto fb/ebay/gumtree at a higher price a few days later..

That’s why I like trades - it takes the number out of it to a certain extent (ie the dude valuing his sg at above new price presumably see the value of my strat in the same way)

hollywoodrox

TTony said:

BobHillman said:

Have you considered the possibility that the seller doesn't have a smartphone

Seriously, does anyone NOT have a smartphone?

Lots & lots I’d imagine  I don’t use a phone but have a smartphone with no connection as it’s a handy camera /video 

Dr_Necessiter

Perhaps also, private sellers see the price of some new guitars going through the ceiling and apply that across the board. I was fantasising about a decent hollow body guitar so was comparing Yamaha SA2200s with others. Music Street had them up for £1,950 IIRC a while ago but now they're up at £2,930 reduced to £2,699 so a 50% price hike at full cost. My gob was duly smacked when I saw the increase.

Bigsby

mankytom said:

Bigsby said:

This sort of thing certainly happens, but also, are you sure it's the exact same model? SG Standards at Andertons vary from £1,399 to £2,199. A Gibson that cost £2,199 new could easily sell form more than £1,400 if in good condition (based on new price - 33%).

I can’t see it now but it was just a standard standard, heritage cherry…

I guess it was just an example though

another might have been the silver skies that I saw for 1900 when guitar guitar had them for 1800

That's really what I was getting at; they're all 'just a standard standard' to some buyers (I'm not saying this applies to you or the situation you've described). For example, I was selling a 2016 SG Standard HP and an eBayer contacted me to tell me I was asking way too much and quoted an asking price for the basic Standard that Gibson were currently offering - a very different guitar, but the guy probably didn't realise it, or was trying it on in a rather hopeless way. Two weeks later the guitar sold for the asking price, so Im confident I hadn't over priced it!

FWIW, this isn't a new phenomenon: I joined eBay in 2002, and I recall just before that my brother told me a colleague had just sold their bass guitar on eBay for more than the cost of a new one. I remember it struck me as bizarre at the time.  

Voxman

Many used prices are hugely over egged. Folk see a similar item for sale that's being offered at £x and they offer their item at a similar price.  In reality, the item they saw hasn't sold, or sold but not at that price.  Folk are also often emotionally connected to their gear and can't help being influenced by what they paid. 

Generally speaking, with exceptions for limited editions or discontinued items in short supply, I'd expect a good used example to be around two thirds of the new price, perhaps 70% or even a tad more if in truly mint condition. And it's really annoying when I see guitars advertised as mint or immaculate... Apart from a dent here and a scratch there! (groan). 

As is always the case, something is only worth what someone's willing to pay. Generally, if an item has been offered for several months and not been sold it usually indicates that it's either not being advertised in the best way, or in the best place, or at the best time, or it's overpriced. But usually it's the latter.

Another theme is mods. If someone has upgraded pickups, tuners, switches, wiring etc, it doesn't mean that adds value. Not everyone will want or  like these mods and some people don't even like the idea of a modded guitar, and they'd prefer it stock.  Building in some or all of the mod expenditure can price sellers out unless they're lucky enough to find a buyer that wants those exact mods. 

Whilst I appreciate folk might have valid and different views, there are things that would deter me:

1. No hard case or gig bag... and even for a mid range guitar I'd want a hard case with it. 

2. Collection only with no delivery option. I've seen so many guitars that I'd otherwise have been happy to bid on but are out in outer Mongolia! And even saying that folk can arrange their own courier puts folk off. I just want to buy the guitar and have it delivered, and not have to fuff around trying to find a courier. 

If you are selling a guitar, give yourself the best chance to sell or get offers, and make it easy for folk to buy! 

3. Conversely, clearly over priced delivery costs that are a turn off/ rip off, and buyers will factor in to their offer anyway.  

Just my two cents for whatever it's worth. 

SPECTRUM001

I am from the same dimension - high quality used should be two thirds of the new price. 

Guitar Guitar told me this in person - offer the buyer one third, and sell at two thirds. That said I laughed when they had a used Gibbard Mustang at nearly 90% of the new price. So that policy wasn’t across the board.

Thereby, the shops aren’t helping (I also recall Noizemaker flogging an Ice Blue Jazzmaster at more than new prices cos that colour had been discontinued - which opens the moral gate for shops to load the cost as ‘rare’).

For sure, individuals can do whatever they like - but I really feel the shops aren’t helping (loads of CS Fenders at 85-90% of new price).

Rob1742

You can list an item for whatever price you want, but it actually selling is a completely different matter.

People generally aren’t stupid so they give the products that are priced too high a wide berth.

It is easy these days to work out the real value of a second hand item with all the information on the internet these days 

mankytom

Rob1742 said:

It is easy these days to work out the real value of a second hand item with all the information on the internet these days 

I think this was my point.. I think it’s just psychologically really interesting that people can find all of this information, use the common sense pointed out in many of the arguments above and still list their items for unrealistically high prices. 

Of course nobody is obliged to sell for a reasonable price, but then nobody is obliged to buy at an inflated one.

Feels like there are a lot of Daniel Levys out there at the minute

Voxman

Rob1742 said:

You can list an item for whatever price you want, but it actually selling is a completely different matter.

People generally aren’t stupid so they give the products that are priced too high a wide berth.

It is easy these days to work out the real value of a second hand item with all the information on the internet these days 

Depends on the item. If something is less common with no reasonably current prices, it can be harder to figure out a fair value. I recently lost picking up a lovely MIM thinline deluxe tele because I got the value wrong and thought it was a bit over priced, when it wasn't.  

Seziertisch

By way of example, the Behringer Dual Phase is available from multiple shops in the EU for between EUR 135 and 166, while there are two sellers on Reverb in the EU looking for EUR 230 and 185 respectively. 

BobHillman

TTony said:

BobHillman said:

Have you considered the possibility that the seller doesn't have a smartphone

Seriously, does anyone NOT have a smartphone?

On what information are you basing that assumption?

Gilly

Some people don’t have smartphones. Can the thread now get back to the original topic?

Tall_martin

We had some Lego passed on to us.

A mate who is a Lego enthusiast told me one space man was worth £40 because it's rare.

Someone had one for sale at £38. It's down to £35 now after 8 months. Which suggests it's absolutely not worth £30.

No cost to list high, maybe someone will pay for it 

I bought a guitar off here for x. Another one sold on eBay for x +£100.

4 years on Someone was listing the same model ( in Japan ) for  two and a half times what I paid for it. I got excited 

6 months on- it's still for sale. Which suggests what I paid for it was closer to it's value and someone is holding out for a massive pay off. 

The guitar is still my dream guitar and I still think it's ace. 

UnclePsychosis

Tall_martin said:

We had some Lego passed on to us.

A mate who is a Lego enthusiast told me one space man was worth £40 because it's rare.

Someone had one for sale at £38. It's down to £35 now after 8 months. Which suggests it's absolutely not worth £30.

No cost to list high, maybe someone will pay for it 

I bought a guitar off here for x. Another one sold on eBay for x +£100.

4 years on Someone was listing the same model ( in Japan ) for  two and a half times what I paid for it. I got excited 

6 months on- it's still for sale. Which suggests what I paid for it was closer to it's value and someone is holding out for a massive pay off. 

The guitar is still my dream guitar and I still think it's ace. 

Reverb and eBay being free to list contributes massively to the insane prices being asked, IMO. I am beginning to think it's a serious problem. 

Nerine

mankytom said:

Rob1742 said:

It is easy these days to work out the real value of a second hand item with all the information on the internet these days 

I think this was my point.. I think it’s just psychologically really interesting that people can find all of this information, use the common sense pointed out in many of the arguments above and still list their items for unrealistically high prices. 

Of course nobody is obliged to sell for a reasonable price, but then nobody is obliged to buy at an inflated one.

Feels like there are a lot of Daniel Levys out there at the minute

150m net last couple of windows?

mankytom

Nerine said:

mankytom said:

Rob1742 said:

It is easy these days to work out the real value of a second hand item with all the information on the internet these days 

I think this was my point.. I think it’s just psychologically really interesting that people can find all of this information, use the common sense pointed out in many of the arguments above and still list their items for unrealistically high prices. 

Of course nobody is obliged to sell for a reasonable price, but then nobody is obliged to buy at an inflated one.

Feels like there are a lot of Daniel Levys out there at the minute

150m net last couple of windows?

Exactly- bedroom dealer role model

TimmyO

Nerine said:

Even realistically priced stuff doesn’t sell because people want a “bargain” or to feel like they’ve “won” the deal. 

I was told that if I was so settled on the price I wanted for something I should have asked for more to allow room for negotiation. Pfft.

TimmyO

SlopeSoarer said:

Nerine said:

Even realistically priced stuff doesn’t sell because people want a “bargain” or to feel like they’ve “won” the deal. 

My opinion is that if prices are realistic, they will sell... but one persons realistic isn't always anothers. Other than that poor descriptions, rubbish photos and niche items don't help.

I suspect there are very few people who don't put wiggle room in their classified ads.

I don’t. If everyone is assuming that everyone is, then THAT’S the/a source of asking price inflation !

TimmyO

hollywoodrox said:

TTony said:

BobHillman said:

Have you considered the possibility that the seller doesn't have a smartphone

Seriously, does anyone NOT have a smartphone?

Lots & lots I’d imagine  I don’t use a phone but have a smartphone with no connection as it’s a handy camera /video 

Yes but like vegans and crossfitters they’re not shy in volunteering that info so it would probably have been mentioned :-) 

Bigsby

TimmyO said:

SlopeSoarer said:

Nerine said:

Even realistically priced stuff doesn’t sell because people want a “bargain” or to feel like they’ve “won” the deal. 

My opinion is that if prices are realistic, they will sell... but one persons realistic isn't always anothers. Other than that poor descriptions, rubbish photos and niche items don't help.

I suspect there are very few people who don't put wiggle room in their classified ads.

I don’t. If everyone is assuming that everyone is, then THAT’S the/a source of asking price inflation !

I don't understand why anyone would put wiggle room in their price. If I think the guitar I'm selling should get £1000 I'll advertise at that price. If I make it £1100 I'll just risk putting some buyers off, as they'll assume I'm being unrealistic and won't accept a realistic amount for it. If anyone assumes I've included wiggle room and offers £900 I'll assume they're only interested in buying if they've got a good chance of flipping it for a profit. 

I'll still have the option to accept their low-ball offer, but if I've over priced it with 'wiggle room', I may not get an offer from someone who would've paid what I thought it was worth.