BLACKSTAR ID:60/100 heads couple of Q's

paul_backskin

To cut a long story short, I'm on a mission to find the smallest, lightest and loudest amp I can get my hands on (and afford).

My days of lugging heavy valve heads around is over.

How loud are these SS blackstar heads compared to say, a 5150? My band play VERY loud.

What is the size of the internal workings in comparison to the housing? Could I DIY a smaller housing case for them?

Ta!

monquixote

How about a AMT Stonehead, or a ZT Lunchbox (which can be used as a head)

ICBM

paul_backskin said:

How loud are these SS blackstar heads compared to say, a 5150? My band play VERY loud.

I tried the ID60 against a Marshall DSL50 (technically a DSL100 running at half power, so it might have been a tiny bit beefier than a true DSL50), and the ID was *almost* as loud and dynamic, into a 4-ohm cab. Into an 8-ohm, less so, and noticeably quiet into 16 ohms, so make sure that your cabinets aren't a limiting factor for this.

To go up against a 5150 you probably need the ID100 head and an efficient (100dB speakers) 4-ohm 2x12" or 4x12" cab.

paul_backskin said:

What is the size of the internal workings in comparison to the housing? Could I DIY a smaller housing case for them?

The ID heads could be housed in a box half the size - the top section behind the cloth-covered panel with the logo contains precisely nothing.

ecc83

paul_backskin said:

To cut a long story short, I'm on a mission to find the smallest, lightest and loudest amp I can get my hands on (and afford).

My days of lugging heavy valve heads around is over.

How loud are these SS blackstar heads compared to say, a 5150? My band play VERY loud.

What is the size of the internal workings in comparison to the housing? Could I DIY a smaller housing case for them?

Ta!

Since it is all but impossible to define how loud ANY amp is in absentia, the IDs are going to be as loud as some, louder than others and not as loud as others again.

You say "heads" so what speakers are you using? I would say that an ID 100 to a 4 Ohm V30 4x12 is going to be loud enough for any sane person!

Yes, you could put the works into a smaller box but you will invalidate the warranty (which is 3 years IIRC?) and to what purpose? The cabinets weigh FA!

Dave.

paul_backskin

thanks for the replies. In our rehearsal space there is a 4x12 16ohm cab. and two 1x12 16ohm cabs.

I'm currently running an AMT P2 into a 180w SS power amp. but on full it can't keep up with a 100w Peavey Valveking (through same cabs). The Valveking is on about 5/6 and the SS power amp is on 10 and drowned out over bassist and drummer also.

does speaker ohm have more of an affect on output when SS is used then?

The stonehead looks awesome but at a SS 50w I can't see it keeping up in volume at all.

My other option was to run the AMT P2 into FX loop of a SS bass amp of around 300w I guess, I was wondering if the blackstar TVP thing was a gimmick or they genuinely keep up with a vavle amp.

Rehousing was just a thought if it worked out right for me.

ThePrettyDamned

What speakers do you use? Because that sounds ludicrous, unless the speakers are really inefficient.

paul_backskin

ThePrettyDamned said:

What speakers do you use? Because that sounds ludicrous, unless the speakers are really inefficient.

the 4x12 cab is a valveking cab. the 1x12's are marshalls, but im not sure what the speakers are. i've used both amps with each set of speakers. the solid state just doesn't hold a candle to valve amp.

Fiftyshadesofjay

Yep, to get full power out of a SS amp you'll need a 4 Ohm cab generally (some lower powered amps only like 8 Ohms and above).

Efficient cabs are helpful too, for example Vintage 30's are a lot louder (more efficient) than Greenbacks.

paul_backskin

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Yep, to get full power out of a SS amp you'll need a 4 Ohm cab generally (some lower powered amps only like 8 Ohms and above).

Efficient cabs are helpful too, for example Vintage 30's are a lot louder (more efficient) than Greenbacks.

Yes, I'd expect it to be louder out of lower resistance cab... but another cab isn't an option as space is extremely limited (the others aren't mine and have to stay). but then I expect the valve amp should suffer from loss of volume in this way also, but it's still way louder than the SS. That's why I'm asking how the Blackstar amps hold up.

Jalapeno

Doesn't look like there's FX loops on Blackstar ID heads

DartmoorHedgehog

Jalapeno said:

Doesn't look like there's FX loops on Blackstar ID heads

You can configure the emulated out and line in to be an effects loop (but obviously you can't use the emulated out or line in if you do that).

ICBM

paul_backskin said:

In our rehearsal space there is a 4x12 16ohm cab. and two 1x12 16ohm cabs.

If you connected to all three cabs you would be down to 5.33 ohms, which is close enough to 4 not to make a lot of difference. The only problem is that you'd need a splitter cable or for one of the cabs to have a parallel out socket, since the head only has two speaker jacks.

paul_backskin said:

does speaker ohm have more of an affect on output when SS is used then?

Yes. Most solid-state amps are direct-coupled and so lose power nearly linearly with higher impedance, ie doubling the impedance halves the power. (Most not quite as bad as that, but close.) Valve amps generally have an output transformer with different impedance taps and so can always be matched to the cabinet impedance and produce the same power into any cab - assuming you do match it correctly.

paul_backskin said:

I was wondering if the blackstar TVP thing was a gimmick or they genuinely keep up with a vavle amp.

It's not a gimmick, it genuinely sounds louder than other solid-state amps the the same rated power. But there is a slight 'cheat', because actually the ID output section is more powerful than it's claimed to be… although for musical purposes that doesn't really matter. The point is that an ID60 will more or less produce the same volume as a 50-60W valve amp, into a 4-ohm cab with the same number and type of speakers.

paul_backskin said:

My other option was to run the AMT P2 into FX loop of a SS bass amp of around 300w

That might work, but be careful because there aren't many guitar cabs which will handle that sort of power. If you use all three of the cabs you have it should be OK though, if the Marshall cabs are 1912 models they should have 150W speakers, and the Peavey cab will be at least that (I think 240W).

But really, I'd find some other way of lowering the overall volume or hearing yourself better. Playing that loud becomes counterproductive very quickly, even if you wear ear protection. Try putting the small cabs up high where you can hear them.

Many years ago I was asked to repair a Peavey 300W PA amp that wasn't working properly - just not producing as much volume as it had done when the band had bought it. I bench-tested it, and it was bang on 300W. So I thought it must be the cabinets, and rather than drag everything down to my workshop I went up to the band's practice room to test them. I still couldn't find anything wrong, so I asked them to demonstrate the problem. I suppose the 100W Marshall stack, enormous bass rig and double-kick rack drum kit should have warned me…

I lasted about three seconds and left the room smartly. When they'd stopped I came back in and asked how often they practiced at that sort of volume - "two or three times a week". Nothing wrong with the gear at all, they were all just deaf.

gearaddict

ICBM said:

Many years ago I was asked to repair a Peavey 300W PA amp that wasn't working properly - just not producing as much volume as it had done when the band had bought it. I bench-tested it, and it was bang on 300W. So I thought it must be the cabinets, and rather than drag everything down to my workshop I went up to the band's practice room to test them. I still couldn't find anything wrong, so I asked them to demonstrate the problem. I suppose the 100W Marshall stack, enormous bass rig and double-kick rack drum kit should have warned me…

I lasted about three seconds and left the room smartly. When they'd stopped I came back in and asked how often they practiced at that sort of volume - "two or three times a week". Nothing wrong with the gear at all, they were all just deaf.

Genuine LOL

paul_backskin

ICBM;402580" said:

It's not a gimmick, it genuinely sounds louder than other solid-state amps the the same rated power. But there is a slight 'cheat', because actually the ID output section is more powerful than it's claimed to be… although for musical purposes that doesn't really matter. The point is that an ID60 will more or less produce the same volume as a 50-60W valve amp, into a 4-ohm cab with the same number and type of speakers.


That might work, but be careful because there aren't many guitar cabs which will handle that sort of power. If you use all three of the cabs you have it should be OK though, if the Marshall cabs are 1912 models they should have 150W speakers, and the Peavey cab will be at least that (I think 240W).

Those cabs need to be shared with the other guitar player, so one of us has the 4x12, the other the 1x12s.

So ultimately, the blackstar will still suffer the same loss of power as my SS amp when used through a 16ohm cab, so I'll likely have the same problem?

My thinking behind the bass amp was that something like a 350w into a 16ohm would end up actually being around 100w, and therefore handled OK by these cabinets. My problem would be in future playing a gig with someone elses 4ohm or 8ohm cab that couldn't handle the power (though I wouldn't be cranked).

We don't play stupidly loud. Drummer hits quite hard. Volume on the valve amp usually about 6. I'm just not loud enough with the SS to be heard properly. Really a valve amp is the most consistent in volume regardless of cabs so maybe I should try and find a smaller 50w head. *sighs*.

Thanks for your help everyone.

ICBM

paul_backskin said:

My thinking behind the bass amp was that something like a 350w into a 16ohm would end up actually being around 100w, and therefore handled OK by these cabinets.

Yes, that will work. Although it may not be very dynamic, so may not sound all that loud.

You may be better using the 1x12"s, they will give a total load of 8 ohms and (if they're 1912s - but check the drivers) will handle the power of the amp at 8 ohms, which will probably be about 200W.

ThePrettyDamned

paul_backskin;402640" said:

[quote="ICBM;402580"]


It's not a gimmick, it genuinely sounds louder than other solid-state amps the the same rated power. But there is a slight 'cheat', because actually the ID output section is more powerful than it's claimed to be… although for musical purposes that doesn't really matter. The point is that an ID60 will more or less produce the same volume as a 50-60W valve amp, into a 4-ohm cab with the same number and type of speakers.


That might work, but be careful because there aren't many guitar cabs which will handle that sort of power. If you use all three of the cabs you have it should be OK though, if the Marshall cabs are 1912 models they should have 150W speakers, and the Peavey cab will be at least that (I think 240W).

Those cabs need to be shared with the other guitar player, so one of us has the 4x12, the other the 1x12s.

So ultimately, the blackstar will still suffer the same loss of power as my SS amp when used through a 16ohm cab, so I'll likely have the same problem?

My thinking behind the bass amp was that something like a 350w into a 16ohm would end up actually being around 100w, and therefore handled OK by these cabinets. My problem would be in future playing a gig with someone elses 4ohm or 8ohm cab that couldn't handle the power (though I wouldn't be cranked).

We don't play stupidly loud. Drummer hits quite hard. Volume on the valve amp usually about 6. I'm just not loud enough with the SS to be heard properly. Really a valve amp is the most consistent in volume regardless of cabs so maybe I should try and find a smaller 50w head. *sighs*.

Thanks for your help everyone.[/quote]

You can get Laney lc50, vc50 combos cheaply and the lh50 head is fairly small and easily portable.

Sound great, too used they are mega cheap, 150-200 quid or so.

gearaddict

paul_backskin said:

We don't play stupidly loud. Drummer hits quite hard. Volume on the valve amp usually about 6. I'm just not loud enough with the SS to be heard properly. Really a valve amp is the most consistent in volume regardless of cabs so maybe I should try and find a smaller 50w head. *sighs*.

Thanks for your help everyone.

I'd still advocate the AMT Stonehead. I use mine with my band - against a loud drummer, completely deaf bass player who seems to view volume controls as on/off switches and another guitarist trying to blow the speaker out of his HRD.

I still win with the Stonehead. 

paul_backskin

ICBM said:

You may be better using the 1x12"s, they will give a total load of 8 ohms and (if they're 1912s - but check the drivers) will handle the power of the amp at 8 ohms, which will probably be about 200W.

problem is the output on the power amp is mono bridged or stereo, so into two separate cabs it halves the output L & R.

ThePrettyDamned said:

You can get Laney lc50, vc50 combos cheaply and the lh50 head is fairly small and easily portable.

Sound great, too used they are mega cheap, 150-200 quid or so.

not "metal" enough. but I could use it as a power amp. was looking at the subzero 50w head as well as a power amp.

I like the look of the randall rd45/50 heads but they dont seem to be distributed over here, so theres no 2nd hand market.

gearaddict said:

I'd still advocate the AMT Stonehead. I use mine with my band - against a loud drummer, completely deaf bass player who seems to view volume controls as on/off switches and another guitarist trying to blow the speaker out of his HRD.

I still win with the Stonehead. 

but those SS 50w in a 16ohm cab I really can't see cutting it. love the look of it. i dont want to buy one blind and find its not loud enough and sell it on again.... it's another amp where there arent many 2nd hand ones around sadly.

paul_backskin

ICBM

paul_backskin said:

problem is the output on the power amp is mono bridged or stereo, so into two separate cabs it halves the output L & R.

Run it mono bridged into both cabinets, not stereo into one per channel. If it only has one speaker output for mono bridge, you just need a splitter cable.

ThePrettyDamned

paul_backskin;402798" said:

ICBM said:You may be better using the 1x12"s, they will give a total load of 8 ohms and (if they're 1912s - but check the drivers) will handle the power of the amp at 8 ohms, which will probably be about 200W.





problem is the output on the power amp is mono bridged or stereo, so into two separate cabs it halves the output L & R.






ThePrettyDamned said:

You can get Laney lc50, vc50 combos cheaply and the lh50 head is fairly small and easily portable.



Sound great, too used they are mega cheap, 150-200 quid or so.





not "metal" enough. but I could use it as a power amp. was looking at the subzero 50w head as well as a power amp.

I like the look of the randall rd45/50 heads but they dont seem to be distributed over here, so theres no 2nd hand market.

gearaddict said:



I'd still advocate the AMT Stonehead. I use mine with my band - against a loud drummer, completely deaf bass player who seems to view volume controls as on/off switches and another guitarist trying to blow the speaker out of his HRD.

I still win with the Stonehead. 





but those SS 50w in a 16ohm cab I really can't see cutting it. love the look of it. i dont want to buy one blind and find its not loud enough and sell it on again.... it's another amp where there arent many 2nd hand ones around sadly.

The not metal enough doesn't matter - you'll be running the amt p2 into the clean channel, which takes pedals great. The amt is supposed to be awesome - the burgs demo proves it can turn anything into a firebreathing monster.

Also, the vc50 has 4 channels and a metric fuckton of gain? Bit heavy.

The lh50 does classic metal and can be boosted for more modern stuff, but as a 150 quid clean pedal platform, it's excellent.