Single coil sized ‘humbuckers’ - how close are they?

skullfunkerry

JayGee said:

I have one of the old Kent Armstrong Sky branded, far east sourced “Warm Rails” SC sized humbucker pickups in my deeply unfashionable ‘80s Telecaster, It doesn’t sound like a full sized humbucker but it is usefully louder, warmer, and all round “bigger” than a regular telecaster and it’s a very usable sound in its own right. it’s wired to a push/pull which gives a choice of both coils in series or parallel which I’ve found works lots better than the usual coil split. Again in parallel mode it’s not the same as a regular Telecaster (or any other single coil) pickup but it’s usefully brighter, quieter, and thinner than series and very usable in its own right.

Sadly it’s gone microphonic now to the point it’s not really usable much above round the house level but I still like the way it sounds and I’d really like something similar to replace it if anyone has a suggestion…

Would Ash at @OilCityPickups be able to re-pot it for you?

theatreanchor

I used them for many years, and they were fine. Couldn't tell when they were distorted. But I probably wouldn't use them now, because I'm a tone snob.

OilCityPickups

skullfunkerry said:

JayGee said:

I have one of the old Kent Armstrong Sky branded, far east sourced “Warm Rails” SC sized humbucker pickups in my deeply unfashionable ‘80s Telecaster, It doesn’t sound like a full sized humbucker but it is usefully louder, warmer, and all round “bigger” than a regular telecaster and it’s a very usable sound in its own right. it’s wired to a push/pull which gives a choice of both coils in series or parallel which I’ve found works lots better than the usual coil split. Again in parallel mode it’s not the same as a regular Telecaster (or any other single coil) pickup but it’s usefully brighter, quieter, and thinner than series and very usable in its own right.

Sadly it’s gone microphonic now to the point it’s not really usable much above round the house level but I still like the way it sounds and I’d really like something similar to replace it if anyone has a suggestion…

Would Ash at @OilCityPickups be able to re-pot it for you?

Potting is possible with any rails ... the caveat is that many are held together with hot melt glue ... so you have to go carefully 

guitarmanessex89

I have a TV3 in my Anderson Tele. Ballsy

OilCityPickups

The issue as I see it, and referencing the OP is that if you want a hum cancelling pickup with a different, perhaps more aggressive attack or more single coil like then a small coil humbucker can be a great choice. That's for example what a Filtertron or a Firebird pickup is for example.
The smaller the coils get past a certain point however, the less well humbuckers do 'clean' while still maintaining a reasonable output. The Exceptions being pickups like Joe Barden's (and my own Rednecks) which are wound especially to be low output and thus get very close to single coils in tone and envelope.  

SC sized humbuckers that ape the outputs of full sized HBs can sound great, especially with lots of drive, but they don't and can't sound like full size humbuckers. 

Funkfingers

What Ash said.

Product nomenclature has much for which to answer. Naming a Track/Rails format pickup "Li'l Super Distortion S" creates expectations that the wee pickup sounds like its full sized namesake. 

My elderly Ibanez RS405 sports (bridge to neck) DiMarzio Chopper, Cruiser N and Fast Track 1 hum-cancelling pickups. I can delude myself that the guitar sounds like a Stratocaster with added balls. Changing to a vintage style Stratocaster immediately shatters any illusions. The Fender is bright and airy. The Ibanez has more chunk and works better under high gain circumstances.

A good example of the properties of Rail/Track pickups is the Richie Kotzen signature Telecaster. The Chopper T bridge position pickup covers a wide range of Rock sounds without ever sounding exactly like a humbucker or, for that matter, like a traditional single coil Telecaster. Still a damned good pickup.

OilCityPickups

Funkfingers said:

What Ash said.

Product nomenclature has much for which to answer. Naming a Track/Rails format pickup "Li'l Super Distortion S" creates expectations that the wee pickup sounds like its full sized namesake. 

My elderly Ibanez RS405 sports (bridge to neck) DiMarzio Chopper, Cruiser N and Fast Track 1 hum-cancelling pickups. I can delude myself that the guitar sounds like a Stratocaster with added balls. Changing to a vintage style Stratocaster immediately shatters any illusions. The Fender is bright and airy. The Ibanez has more chunk and works better under high gain circumstances.

A good example of the properties of Rail/Track pickups is the Richie Kotzen signature Telecaster. The Chopper T bridge position pickup covers a wide range of Rock sounds without ever sounding exactly like a humbucker or, for that matter, like a traditional single coil Telecaster. Still a damned good pickup.

!00% correct ... calling a humbucker a Lil 59 or Lil Super Distortion is basically deceiving buyers by using emotive names for products that can't deliver. 
I will admit to getting seriously pissed off with US companies in particulat my in industry that attempt to baffle the buying public with bullshit. 

Bennyboy-UK

I have a few guitars with old late 80s and early 90s Seymour Duncan Hot Rails and I really quite like them - most importantly of all they look supercool  - especially the old exposed coil models.

I like having a bridge position humbucker in a guitar, so recently replaced the set of SSL1s in this guitar - with an old Hotrails set with the hotter bridge unit along with swapping out the 250k pots to 500k units

...I was definitely NOT going to route this guitar out for a full sized humbucker!

  

It has a (sadly) non-working an onboard active preamp with EQ which would normally add the grunt I would want with the flick of a switch - vintage to modern with the onboard single coils.

(I'm looking for a replacement pre-amp for it as it happens)


This set up gets me nicely in the ball park, it's not exactly like a full sized HB - but thats fine by me it sounds good and thats all that matters really.

ICBM

Bennyboy-UK said:

...I was definitely NOT going to route this guitar out for a full sized humbucker!

  

It has a (sadly) non-working an onboard active preamp with EQ which would normally add the grunt I would want with the flick of a switch - vintage to modern with the onboard single coils.

(I'm looking for a replacement pre-amp for it as it happens)

It looks miles better with the Rails too - really gives it that late-80s rock machine vibe.

The preamp should be repairable - at that age it will be through-hole components and probably a standard op-amp, I think.

Funkfingers

Duncan Rails pickups are designed to work with the stock A250k pots in Fender guitars. 

500k will pass slightly more treble. This may improve the clean sounds but at the expense of making ultra high gain overdrive sounds too shrill.

DiMarzio Track pickups tend to sound better with whatever pot values the website Tech Talk sub-page suggests.

Bennyboy-UK

I didn’t know that! 

And I took my life in my hands to do that soldering work too with the pots and all!

I prefer a rounder HB tone as well without too much top end - I reckon I’m ok with how it is currently but now I want to try the 250k pots back in there!

I bet that’s because SD banked on players leaving Strat middle and neck single coils on situ and just replacing the bridge unit - so the 250k pots would make perfect sense.

Bennyboy-UK

And also “clean sounds”, pah hah hah!!! Unlikely in my house

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

Bennyboy-UK said:

...I was definitely NOT going to route this guitar out for a full sized humbucker!

  

It has a (sadly) non-working an onboard active preamp with EQ which would normally add the grunt I would want with the flick of a switch - vintage to modern with the onboard single coils.

(I'm looking for a replacement pre-amp for it as it happens)

It looks miles better with the Rails too - really gives it that late-80s rock machine vibe.

Agreed, those pickups look completely at home in that guitar.  It made me think of the Mirage.

Bennyboy-UK

(Mirage! - the only other guitar Hamer did with the Watson body outline - whisper it )

ICBM

Forgot to say, if you're going to be working on the electrics again, replace that chrome mini-switch with a black one - you know it isn't right otherwise .

Bennyboy-UK

ICBM said:

Forgot to say, if you're going to be working on the electrics again, replace that chrome mini-switch with a black one - you know it isn't right otherwise .

I’ve tried to consciously ignore that, but now someone else has said it it can’t stand!

randella

I have a Hot Rails in the neck of a Fender HM Strat, an 80's stab by the big F to reclaim the superstrat thing. It didn't work, I've not seen another for decades.

The rails works perfectly against a full-fat bridge humbucker in a basswood bodied SS with a Floyd bridge. 

Tuppence-worth done