1/4" panel mount socket for a guitar cabinet?

ICBM

octatonic said:

Is this ok for guitar cabs?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09MVJV7RG?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Total overkill, and will be difficult to get the wire ends into the solder terminals on the speakers and jack.

You don't need anything that thick - 18AWG is plenty, even 24AWG would be adequate - or with that extreme flexibility, it's going to be more or less immobile once the cabinet back is on.

Ripped-down mains cable is ideal as well as free if you've got an old piece.

octatonic

ICBM said:

octatonic said:

Is this ok for guitar cabs?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09MVJV7RG?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Total overkill, and will be difficult to get the wire ends into the solder terminals on the speakers and jack.

You don't need anything that thick - 18AWG is plenty, even 24AWG would be adequate - or with that extreme flexibility, it's going to be more or less immobile once the cabinet back is on.

Ripped-down mains cable is ideal as well as free if you've got an old piece.

OK.

I have some 16 AWG wire laying around.

octatonic

Sorry, one final question.

Insulated or non-insulated spade connectors?
Is there an advantage to one or the other?

ICBM

octatonic said:

I have some 16 AWG wire laying around.

Even that might be a bit big - if you can squeeze it down enough to fit through the terminal loops it's OK though.

There *really* is no advantage to going bigger than cable which is at least adequate, no matter what the cable zealots will tell you - at the end of the day the wire gauge of the cone braids from the speaker terminals to the voice coil is smaller, and the coil wire itself thinner still. And then there's the contact resistance of the 1/4" jacks, as already mentioned.

The most important factor is whether it will fit properly into the terminals - through the solder loops if you're soldering (not just tacked onto the surface with solder) or into the crimp connectors.

octatonic said:

Insulated or non-insulated spade connectors?
Is there an advantage to one or the other?

Non. You don't need to bother with insulation, they're not going to touch anything or have anything touch them inside a cabinet.

octatonic

ICBM said:

octatonic said:

I have some 16 AWG wire laying around.

Even that might be a bit big - if you can squeeze it down enough to fit through the terminal loops it's OK though.

There *really* is no advantage to going bigger than cable which is at least adequate, no matter what the cable zealots will tell you - at the end of the day the wire gauge of the cone braids from the speaker terminals to the voice coil is smaller, and the coil wire itself thinner still. And then there's the contact resistance of the 1/4" jacks, as already mentioned.

The most important factor is whether it will fit properly into the terminals - through the solder loops if you're soldering (not just tacked onto the surface with solder) or into the crimp connectors.

octatonic said:

Insulated or non-insulated spade connectors?
Is there an advantage to one or the other?

Non. You don't need to bother with insulation, they're not going to touch anything or have anything touch them inside a cabinet.

OK, but if I have insulated spade terminals here (I do) then there is no problem with using them instead?

Cheers.

ICBM

octatonic said:

OK, but if I have insulated spade terminals here (I do) then there is no problem with using them instead?

Yes, they're fine.

octatonic

ICBM said:

octatonic said:

OK, but if I have insulated spade terminals here (I do) then there is no problem with using them instead?

Yes, they're fine.

Thanks. I appreciate these are basic questions, I just want to not kill my amps.

ICBM

octatonic said:

Thanks. I appreciate these are basic questions, I just want to not kill my amps.

Of course . And the question is, what is the most important characteristic of your speaker cables, jacks and the cabling inside the cabinet... wire gauge, number of strands, cable length, resistance, capacitance, linear oxygen free copper, type of cable termination, price?

None of those things - it's reliability. There is no audible difference in sound between any speaker cables of at least adequate gauge over the kind of lengths and power handling requirement for a guitar cabinet, so you need to choose purely on which is the most robust, and least likely to come undone - that's it really.

18AWG 6A 2-core mains cable is the best speaker cable money can (or doesn't need to) buy - it's designed to be tough, flexible, withstand being trodden on, tugged and caught under furniture without exposing the mains wires, and it will handle the current of a 100W amp running continuously at full power into a 4-ohm load, which is the most any guitar amp is ever likely to deliver. You don't need anything bigger - which won't easily fit into the plugs - and you can usually acquire it for free, or very cheap even if you have to buy it. It comes in colours like grey or orange which are easy to tell apart from guitar cables. (I like grey, orange looks a bit odd on stage to me.)

Neutrik NP2 series plugs are the best - the straight ones only, not right-angled - because they're made from single turned pieces of metal and don't have any internal rivetting which can work loose in other types. The plugs are far more important than the cable, in fact - almost all speaker cable failures are at the plug.

Cliff/Re-An plastic jacks are the better of the standard cheap designs because the ground contact isn't as prone to corrosion as the centre barrel of a Switchcraft type (it tends to get cleaned as the plug slides past it) and again, the terminals are single pieces of metal with no rivetting.

Crimp connectors on the wiring *can* be reliable if they're properly fitted to the wires, fit the speaker terminals correctly, and are tight - but soldering is better in the long term in my experience, since if properly done there is nothing that can work loose and nowhere for corrosion to get in between surfaces.

The wiring in the cabinet simply needs to be the same gauge as the speaker cable - there's no advantage to bigger, it just makes attaching it to the terminals more difficult, and it won't reduce the overall resistance measurably or improve anything.

I think that's everything...!

octatonic

Got it, thanks.

I appreciate the time too.

I have one cab that changes speakers all the time (putting a G12M-65 Creamback in there tomorrow to replace the Greenback) - so I have used crimp connectors for that (see photo) that I made today.
Everything else is soldered.

mrkb

I run the socket and speaker wires to a chocolate block mounted inside the cab to make changing speakers easier. That way all connections are soldered or held by a good mechanical load.

octatonic

ICBM said:

octatonic said:

Thanks. I appreciate these are basic questions, I just want to not kill my amps.

Of course . And the question is, what is the most important characteristic of your speaker cables, jacks and the cabling inside the cabinet... wire gauge, number of strands, cable length, resistance, capacitance, linear oxygen free copper, type of cable termination, price?

None of those things - it's reliability. There is no audible difference in sound between any speaker cables of at least adequate gauge over the kind of lengths and power handling requirement for a guitar cabinet, so you need to choose purely on which is the most robust, and least likely to come undone - that's it really.

18AWG 6A 2-core mains cable is the best speaker cable money can (or doesn't need to) buy - it's designed to be tough, flexible, withstand being trodden on, tugged and caught under furniture without exposing the mains wires, and it will handle the current of a 100W amp running continuously at full power into a 4-ohm load, which is the most any guitar amp is ever likely to deliver. You don't need anything bigger - which won't easily fit into the plugs - and you can usually acquire it for free, or very cheap even if you have to buy it. It comes in colours like grey or orange which are easy to tell apart from guitar cables. (I like grey, orange looks a bit odd on stage to me.)

Neutrik NP2 series plugs are the best - the straight ones only, not right-angled - because they're made from single turned pieces of metal and don't have any internal rivetting which can work loose in other types. The plugs are far more important than the cable, in fact - almost all speaker cable failures are at the plug.

Cliff/Re-An plastic jacks are the better of the standard cheap designs because the ground contact isn't as prone to corrosion as the centre barrel of a Switchcraft type (it tends to get cleaned as the plug slides past it) and again, the terminals are single pieces of metal with no rivetting.

Crimp connectors on the wiring *can* be reliable if they're properly fitted to the wires, fit the speaker terminals correctly, and are tight - but soldering is better in the long term in my experience, since if properly done there is nothing that can work loose and nowhere for corrosion to get in between surfaces.

The wiring in the cabinet simply needs to be the same gauge as the speaker cable - there's no advantage to bigger, it just makes attaching it to the terminals more difficult, and it won't reduce the overall resistance measurably or improve anything.

I think that's everything...!

OK after several attempts at buying suitable speaker cable and hating the quality of it (Amazon returns FTW) I've just ripped down some spare mains lead.
It really is the best cable to make speaker cab looms from.
I should just do what you suggest in future.

Question- should I rip the cable out of the black plastic sheath and twist them like this?

ecc83

Twist them if you want, really does not matter. One thing, perhaps due again to my hi fi history? I hate to see cables just hanging loose, cable tie them to the speaker chassis to prevent them rattling. Looks neater as well.

Also, does not really matter for gitspeakers but if when soldering a hi fi woofer you dropped hot solder on the neoprene surround? Bye bye expensive woofer!

Dave.

octatonic

ecc83 said:

Twist them if you want, really does not matter. One thing, perhaps due again to my hi fi history? I hate to see cables just hanging loose, cable tie them to the speaker chassis to prevent them rattling. Looks neater as well.

Also, does not really matter for gitspeakers but if when soldering a hi fi woofer you dropped hot solder on the neoprene surround? Bye bye expensive woofer!

Dave.

I use a piece of cardboard to protect the cone.

ecc83

octatonic said:

ecc83 said:

Twist them if you want, really does not matter. One thing, perhaps due again to my hi fi history? I hate to see cables just hanging loose, cable tie them to the speaker chassis to prevent them rattling. Looks neater as well.

Also, does not really matter for gitspeakers but if when soldering a hi fi woofer you dropped hot solder on the neoprene surround? Bye bye expensive woofer!

Dave.

I use a piece of cardboard to protect the cone.

Well yes! But not everyone is as smart as you and I.

Dave.

ICBM

I normally strip the cable and twist the wires for inside a cab, like you've done - just because it's the normal way a factory-made cab is done, there's no difference otherwise - although just possibly, it may be slightly better stripped because now the cable weighs fractionally less, so there's less stress on the speaker terminals.... but it's very marginal.

octatonic

Another question for @ICBM and @ecc83.
I have Zilla cabs- they use this dished backplate which is 110mm x 100mm.



I want to find replacement ones (in black) with 2 x jack socket holes so I can wire them for mono/stereo.
I've done one today as I had one of these backplates but can't find a source for them anywhere, partly because I don't know what they are called.

I'd rather not drill into my existing ones.

Cheers.

ICBM

Searching on 'speaker cab jack plate' on Ebay finds this, which looks like it might be the same. The only ones with two jack holes are rectangular rather than square though.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395528112361

A google image search on the same thing finds this - I don't know if the dimensions are exactly the same, they're not given on the first one.

https://www.penn-elcom.com/black-plastic-dish-punched-for-2-jacks-connectors-m1500

... or contact Zilla and see where they get theirs from.

maltingsaudio

Danny1969 said:

The jack plug was never designed for speaker (power) applications .. it's a post office signal connector. 

The pedant in me wants to question this , the voltage being sent down a telephone line can be up to 70 volts, approximately the same as that produced by a guitar amp. The exchange connectors would have been built to exceed this voltage by a good margin 

Danny1969

maltingsaudio said:

Danny1969 said:

The jack plug was never designed for speaker (power) applications .. it's a post office signal connector. 

The pedant in me wants to question this , the voltage being sent down a telephone line can be up to 70 volts, approximately the same as that produced by a guitar amp. The exchange connectors would have been built to exceed this voltage by a good margin 

It's not voltage but power that's the issue.  P = VI (I meaning current in amperes) 

You can have 1000V going down a mouse's pube at a very low current  ...  For any given power the higher the voltage the less current you need and visa versa 

For example the starter motor on a car is only 12V but look how large the cable is going from the car battery to the starter motor. This is because the cranking voltage can be 300 to 400 amps ... more for some diesel engines. Small voltage but massive current  = 4000 watts or so in this case. 


Valve amps are high voltage low current devices by nature. They produce their power wattage in high voltage but  low current format.  But the output transformer turns that distribution of power into a much lower voltage but higher current which is capable of driving a low Z load like a speaker. 

The jack plug isn't a good connector for very sinking power into low impedances like a speaker. Not enough contact area and not robust enough. This is why it was pretty much abandoned by the PA industry as far as passive boxes go in all but the cheapest and lowest wattage applications 

thermionic

The plugs and sockets used in GPO switchboards are not the same as consumer 1/4” or 6.35mm jacks. The PO316 or B-gauge jacks have a different tip shape, are made of brass, and the socket connectors were designed to wipe the plugs clean in use. I can’t say that this makes them more suitable for handling 70V or not, but they seem to me to have been designed to cope with more heavy duty use.