Pedal switcher advice wanted

english_bob

PC_Dave said:

oeljadi said:

Have you considered the Morningstar stuff? If you pair one of the controllers with a midi controllable loop switcher like the ML5 (or there are other options from Morningstar or others) might work? You might need one loop switcher for pedals in front and another for those in the loop. 

You can hide the loop switchers under pedalboards pretty easily usually, and the Morningstar controllers are not massive. The other advantage is that they’re sort of modular in that if you need more loops you just add more loop switchers.

Some of the controllers also have TRS control so you can switch amp channels and the like.

Thinking out loud, but if I went down the ML5 route, i'm assuming I could put the pedals I want in the loop via the ML5 and control it via MIDI from something like an ES5? Or am I barking up the wrong tree there?

Yep. The ML-5 is basically five send and return loops in a box, which can be turned on or off in any combination you want via MIDI commands. In theory it could be controlled from anything that can send the relevant MIDI commands. You could link it to an ES-5 and have ten controllable loops.

oeljadi

What english_bob said: so long as it can send program change messages you’re ok. 

A two loop alternative to the ML5 is produced by the Gigrig I think, but it’s expensive for the number of loops. I’m sure there must be others too.

PC_Dave

Interesting - the plot thickens…

english_bob

oeljadi said:

What english_bob said: so long as it can send program change messages you’re ok. 

A two loop alternative to the ML5 is produced by the Gigrig I think, but it’s expensive for the number of loops. I’m sure there must be others too.

Yep, the GigRig Remotest Loopy. There are a couple of other MIDI controlled remote switchers that I know of- I know Voodoo Labs, G-Lab and a Polish company called EM Custom make them. There's TRS triggered ones too, that will work off the TRS (amp channel switching) outputs of something like an ES-5/8.

PC_Dave

So the options as far as I can see would be an ES8 as that can do 4 cable method relatively easily, or an ES5 with a midi loop. The 8 would allow for more stomp mode and preset options, the 5 would be slightly limiting without switching banks.

Interesting….

prowla

PC_Dave said:

Thanks all for the info so far - i'm still confused how to hook up the switcher to the FX loop - does the send from the amp go to a loop and then from a loop back to the return with the pedals "in" those loops? @andy1839 will give you a shout.

My bass fx board in its current "final" (honestly) state:

The EBS Microbass 3 (MB3) is a preamp and the switcher along the front is a GigRig Quartermaster 6 (QM6).

• The MB3 FX Send goes to the QM6 input, at the right-hand end.
• The QM6 output, at the left-hand end goes back to the MB3 RFX Return.

In my case the MB3 is a preamp on the pedalboard and the interconnects are small, but you could equally run cables from your normal amp's FX Send and FX Return jacks to the QM6 input & output jacks (or other switcher of choice).

And then onto the board...

• The QM6 has 6 footswitches, each with a Send and Return jack socket above it and an LED which lights up when pressed.
• If all of the QM6 switches are off, the signal just goes straight through from input at the right to putput at the left.
• The QM6 only has 4 loops connected (the leftmost two pairs of sockets have no jacks and so don't do anything).
• Going right to left, the 1st loop's pair of jacks connect to the MP40 pedal (sound-shaper and distortion) input & output jacks.
• The 2nd loop's pair of jacks connect to the SS-11 pedal (valve distortion) input & output.
• The 3rd loop's pair of jacks connect to the C4 synth pedal (there's some great sounds in that).
• The 4th loop's pair of jacks connect to the HX Stomp (lts of fx condensed into one box).
• The pedals are always-on, but only in circuit when their loop is switched on in the QM6.
• (The 6th loop is to allow me to connect to a supplementary pedalboard with some more cool effects.)
  

Some further notes.

• The loops allow you switch fx in/out conveniently from the QM6 strip of buttons along the front.
• The loops also allow you to change effects selection (eg. on the Stomp or C4) whilst it is switched out.
• I've also got a Ninja Fox add-on with two switches for the HX Stomp (configured to do up/down) and a Morningstar MIDI controller to switch patches on the C4 (as you're not going to want to be fiddling around with its controls whilst playing).

Jono111

With the es5 you can attach a extra 2 button foot switch and assign any functions to the buttons

Jonathangus

In a bid to try to reduce tap dancing while trying to sing BVs, I've just acquired an MS-3.  Will spend some time at the weekend learning my way round and setting up a bunch of patches.  Will be a learning curve, no doubt.

english_bob

Jono111 said:

With the es5 you can attach a extra 2 button foot switch and assign any functions to the buttons

Or even another MIDI controller to do the same. Or both.
You can also set up patches so that a second tap on the same footswitch on the ES-5 changes something- turns a loop on or off or sends a MIDI command or something. With both in play you can make a single patch a *set* of related sounds.

JayGee

Snags said:

If you want to dip your toe in the water for low cost, I have a PXL-Pro 8 that I no longer use or need. Essentially the same as what Harley Benton put out now (fairly sure it's physically the same thing, just a different badge).

It will cover pre-set combos, but won't let you change pedal order. No problem doing 4CM with it, that's how I used it (doing 4CM gets you four loops in front and four in the loop, tuner can be on a dedicated feed so doesn't waste a loop).

For basic switching it was absolutely fine, and built like a tank. I just don't use that many pedals in one hit these days.

if you can live with the fixed routing and loop splitting the Joyo PXLs are an absolute steal - I had the version with the MIDI control which I used for channel selection on a Blasckstar Series One amp and patch selection on a TC delay pedal and once I worked out how to program the MIDI switching (it’s not at all obvious and not at all well described in the documentation) it was an absolute dream to use on stage and absolutely an ridiculous “Bang for buck” factor.

PC_Dave

Well.. I had a couple of beers last night and made on offer on a Gigrig G2 that was accepted....! Let's see how this all pans out!

PC_Dave

Yet another question to the wise people here, sorry…!

Ive read that the Browne Protein can be used in split mode using TRS, so what sort of cable do I need for both sides? 

english_bob

PC_Dave said:

Yet another question to the wise people here, sorry…!

Ive read that the Browne Protein can be used in split mode using TRS, so what sort of cable do I need for both sides? 

From the Browne amps website:

To use with a loop switcher like the RJM Mastermind ect.

The TRS plug on the input is going to act as the loop for the green side.

The TRS plug on the output is going to act as the loop for the blue side.

Tip is the input/send from your Loop

Ring is the output/return to your Loop. 

There is a switch inside the pedal that needs to be flipped to the “split” position to use it this way. Remove the four screws from the back panel and flip the switch to the split position.

PC_Dave

english_bob said:

PC_Dave said:

Yet another question to the wise people here, sorry…!

Ive read that the Browne Protein can be used in split mode using TRS, so what sort of cable do I need for both sides? 

From the Browne amps website:

To use with a loop switcher like the RJM Mastermind ect.

The TRS plug on the input is going to act as the loop for the green side.

The TRS plug on the output is going to act as the loop for the blue side.

Tip is the input/send from your Loop

Ring is the output/return to your Loop. 

There is a switch inside the pedal that needs to be flipped to the “split” position to use it this way. Remove the four screws from the back panel and flip the switch to the split position.

Yeah I read that (I’m not incapable of googling ), just didn’t know how that works with a switcher, because surely they need to be in individual loops? How does that work.

english_bob

Sorry, fair point.

The way I interpret it, each TRS cable is now the input and output for that side of the pedal. You connect each TRS cable to its own send/return on your switcher and can remotely bypass one or other or both sides depending on which loops are active on the switcher.

You could do it with one loop on your switcher if you also used something like this:

https://shop.thegigrig.com/products/remotest-loopy-2?currency=GBP&variant=45245936730396&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&stkn=81041dcbfd3b&utm_campaign=20268723309&adgroupid=&utm_content=&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5Lmg8K_dhwMVr5BQBh1GXDD8EAQYASABEgJ5EfD_BwE

The switcher's loop send goes to the input, the TRS cables from the pedal go in to the two loops, then the output goes back to the switcher. The switcher tells it which loop to activate via TRS or MIDI.

A sledgehammer to crack a nut? Yes. Yes it is. Although if you had something like an ES-5 with a limited number of loops it might appeal.


What cable? Assuming you can find one that terminates in suitable jacks and is roughly the right length, the simplest would be a male TRS to 2x male TS jacks. 

This looks about right: 

https://www.gak.co.uk/en/ebs-icy-30-y-type-insert-cable-for-billy-sheehan-drive-pedal/931705?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-9X_gK_dhwMViZRQBh1kvgHvEAQYByABEgITjPD_BwE

Failing that, a male TRS to 2x female TS with a very short cable, connected to regular patch leads:

https://www.gear4music.com/G4M/Klotz-Y-Cable-1-4-Twin-1-4-Compact-Headphone-Distributor/255S?origin=product-ads&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-9X_gK_dhwMViZRQBh1kvgHvEAQYBCABEgJjR_D_BwE ;

I'd be inclined to avoid that if possible though- more jack sockets means more connections that can get dirty or worn and cut out.

PC_Dave

Thanks @english_bob - I wasn't sure if I needed a Y cable or not, that's where I was getting confused.

I'd prefer to not have to spend any more money where possible , so that Remote Loopy is probably out of the question, so i'll have to look into the cables. 

english_bob

PC_Dave said:

Thanks @english_bob - I wasn't sure if I needed a Y cable or not, that's where I was getting confused.

I'd prefer to not have to spend any more money where possible , so that Remote Loopy is probably out of the question, so i'll have to look into the cables. 

Considering how many loops the G2 has I don't think you'd need to worry so much about using two unless you had an absolute monster of a pedalboard.

PC_Dave

english_bob said:

PC_Dave said:

Thanks @english_bob - I wasn't sure if I needed a Y cable or not, that's where I was getting confused.

I'd prefer to not have to spend any more money where possible , so that Remote Loopy is probably out of the question, so i'll have to look into the cables. 

Considering how many loops the G2 has I don't think you'd need to worry so much about using two unless you had an absolute monster of a pedalboard.

Yeah i'm not worried about that - just couldn't get my head around how to connect each side of the Protein. I'm happy to use up two individual loops for it.