Hotter Pickups for The Green Green Gretsch of home....

KevS

I have raised my Blacktops right up etc..
They don't sound bad,,they don't suit the guitar I feel..They are too civilised..It's like I want them to just have "More"..
It's like they are on about 8 and I want 10..I won't say 11..Sorry I just did,,Groan..
My 2 tone Green Gretsch Electromatic G 5420 T is one of those guitars you just want to play the living crap out of..
.It really has that play me,,play me hard feel..I've really bonded with it..I have quite short fingers..The 24.6 scale opens up what I can do..

I find the New Style Black Tops and the older ones lacking treble sizzle..

Gretsch Purists may get in a tizzy..I need something with ruder manners..I know original fIltertrons were quite low output..
Hopefully not something I have to take a mortgage out to buy either..

I would like the neck pickup to be Jazzier and have a bit more bass,,although clean tron bass rather than fat PAF bass.Although at would be better than just now..,,Out of any of my guitar,,this one I burst into the Jazz things on it..,,
The bridge to introduce a bit more muscle into the Rockabilly,,
but still be able to deliver Indie Jangle with a bit of sizzle on top,,all in a Gretsch way of course..
I have guitars with the PAF thing..

The Pots it came with seem to have an uneven range on them too..I know a Treble bleed is supposed to be good on the master..
I am open to push pulls on the pots too if they can add useful usable variation..

A Duane Eddy on Steroids/ Beatles / Malcolm Young switch...lol..
I know that one isn't really possible..

I love this guitar,,it plays so great with Gauge 11's on it..I wish it sounded as good as it plays..
<a href="https://imgur.com/wUms9Ae"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/wUms9Ae.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

AK99

Can't help on the question itself I'm afraid - but full marks for the thread title that man

ICBM

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

It might be worth changing the bridge too, if it has the tune-o-matic type - a bar bridge or a Gretsch ‘space control’ type will sound better.

Cirrus

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KevS

ICBM said:

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

It might be worth changing the bridge too, if it has the tune-o-matic type - a bar bridge or a Gretsch ‘space control’ type will sound better.

Thanks..No Bridge pickups at Thomann..I can have a good look around though..

Are we talking about these though...? HS Filtertrons  https://www.thomann.de/gb/gretsch_filtertron_hs_neck.htm

Do you know if they will fit the Electromatic holes and pickup surrounds..?

I'm taking it CTS 500 K pots and 220 Microfarad Caps are what should be used..?

When you say Space Control,do you mean The Melita Bridge..?
Does it jag into your hand,,or is it smooth feeling..?
I've never played a guitar with one..

Not so sure about then Bar Bridge for intonation..
Then again a metal bar might add sustain and bite like a Les Paul Junior..
Juniors sound great..HMMM !! I think 3 saddle Teles sound way better too..
More metal there..Less small parts to rattle..Mind you I lock the screws with clear nail varnish..
Good for Tele and Les Paul Jack Plugs too...
Too much info probably,,plus saying what you already know..

Clear nail varnish is useful stuff folks..

Sorry for asking so many questions...I always did ask too many questions..lol

ICBM

KevS said:

Are we talking about these though...? HS Filtertrons  https://www.thomann.de/gb/gretsch_filtertron_hs_neck.htm

Yes, although there are other options... eg TV Jones - much more expensive, but do a slightly hotter bridge pickup as well.

KevS said:

Do you know if they will fit the Electromatic holes and pickup surrounds..?

I think so! They look the same - I've never actually tried it. Even if a little work is required, it's worth it. I fitted a set to a different Gretsch a while ago which needed quite a lot of work, but the difference was still totally worthwhile.

KevS said:

I'm taking it CTS 500 K pots and 220 Microfarad Caps are what should be used..?

No need to change what's there. The treble-pass cap on the master volume might be worth doing though.

KevS said:

When you say Space Control,do you mean The Melita Bridge..?

No, Space Control - the one with the rotary saddles on the threaded bar.

KevS said:

Not so sure about then Bar Bridge for intonation..

Close enough for rock'n'roll .

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

It might be worth changing the bridge too, if it has the tune-o-matic type - a bar bridge or a Gretsch ‘space control’ type will sound better.

Absolutely this .... 

And part of the reason I got rid of the Black Tops in my 5420 was the fact they were so gutless! I replaced with Dynasonics ... but same cause.

Doulin

Do you also need new plastic surrounds? IIRC the blacktops have 4 screws to raise and lower height and the more traditional filtertrons have a different system. I'll check a little later.

I have a 6120jr2 with filters and my wife a g5565 with broadtron blacktops and my dad a lovely pink jet with black top filters! So I am hoping I can offer some help here.
I agree the broadtrons sound very different to my 6120. They're much closer to PAF territory in my book but still very clear. Personally I think they sound mint actually especially on the neck through her set up but through my vox maybe less so. But I would go as far to say it sounds jazzier to me than the filtertrons. Just its own thing rather than that gretsch thing.

The blacktop filters on jet are lovely sounding things. They do almost everything the 6120 does. But my 6120 (obviously biased because this one is mine) feels it has a little more than the blacktops. But that maybe me. Could try and snag some blacktop filters cheap?

(note on my gretsch purist views - as much as i love fingerpicking the gretsch clean, i also love smashing fuzz boxes in front of it! Much more versatile than people say in my book!)

Cirrus

OK now I'm sober:

TL:DR: Get a pair of HS Filtertrons.

 I still think ceramic HS filtertrons from the '90s are the absolute best because they somehow manage to be thick, clear, jangly and have a big middy punch all at the same time. And like all decent gretsch style pickups, they do the great Jekyll and Hyde thing - rich and characterful cleans, and mean, mean aggressive snarl with distortion. But they don't come up that much so this is more of a "look out for..." suggestion.

Next best I really think are the stock HS Filtertrons, they do the same thing but with more compression, softer, less tight bottom end, and a little mid shift. You'll really notice the switch from blacktops - they'll give you MORE, and they are not at all expensive, even to buy new. Probably the last good deal in main brand stock pickups, you can get a pair for less than a 2nd hand set of Gibson humbuckers.

I love TV jones, But I think of them as more refined and then as they get hotter with the classic plus etc they push into PAF territory with their mids and compression. For attitude and character I'd rather have HS Filters than TV Classics.

I Did LOVE the Brian Setzer TV sig Filters, but In my hollow body 5422 the low mids were too much - I had to put them in a solid body electromatic to get the goods. The 5420 has even more low mid body resonance than that, so I could see them being too middy.

Doulin

3 screws in the Black top Broadtron!
This is a good source of what you need. Or talk with someone who has done it
https://tvjones.com/pickup-replacements

Seziertisch

Could you just “upgrade” a set of regular Filtertrons with a ceramic magnet?

Cirrus

Oh yeah, mounting!

Right, yeah. So the blacktops do have 3 screws. HS filtertrons - you'll need to use metal cutters to remove the extra width baseplate ears. And then you'll need a way to mount it on a pickup ring.

Two options:

1; a simple metal bar. Pickup screws into bar, bar wider than pickup becomes the ears. Here's one;

https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/pickup-making-parts/filtertron-parts/filtertron-humbucker-adapter-plate/

And another;

https://www.guitarfetish.com/GFTron-Adapter-Plate-with-Screw-CHROME_p_33866.html

But be warned - sometimes they're drilled for a slightly different width of mounting screw - I had to file away some baseplate on HS filtertrons to make it fit.

2: TV jones clip system, which are basically two ears that screw on to the pickups. Surprisingly hard to get hold of without buying TV pickups.


And in both cases, you'll need one of these per pickup:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/tv_jones_dual_screw_mount_adaptor.htm?glp=1&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtZK1BhDuARIsAAy2VzvCiiuQy_eS6kHTOfIgUADwfI9uA0BomXpITWf4jOgTUykYJl2J_sIaAgLoEALw_wcB

octatonic

ICBM said:

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

This.

If you really need more grunt then Setzer signature TV Jones are worth a look.

TheMarlin

Supertrons are awesome. 

KevS

Cirrus said:

Oh yeah, mounting!

Right, yeah. So the blacktops do have 3 screws. HS filtertrons - you'll need to use metal cutters to remove the extra width baseplate ears. And then you'll need a way to mount it on a pickup ring.

Two options:

1; a simple metal bar. Pickup screws into bar, bar wider than pickup becomes the ears. Here's one;

https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/pickup-making-parts/filtertron-parts/filtertron-humbucker-adapter-plate/

And another;

https://www.guitarfetish.com/GFTron-Adapter-Plate-with-Screw-CHROME_p_33866.html

But be warned - sometimes they're drilled for a slightly different width of mounting screw - I had to file away some baseplate on HS filtertrons to make it fit.

2: TV jones clip system, which are basically two ears that screw on to the pickups. Surprisingly hard to get hold of without buying TV pickups.


And in both cases, you'll need one of these per pickup:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/tv_jones_dual_screw_mount_adaptor.htm?glp=1&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtZK1BhDuARIsAAy2VzvCiiuQy_eS6kHTOfIgUADwfI9uA0BomXpITWf4jOgTUykYJl2J_sIaAgLoEALw_wcB

Thanks so much for your detailed advice...I have a set of HS Filters on the way...

OOPS,,now I am looking at Guitar Fetish GF Tron pickups...

You can buy mounting rings too..

Not sure of import duty though,,or delivery time..

KevS

OilCityPickups said:

ICBM said:

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

It might be worth changing the bridge too, if it has the tune-o-matic type - a bar bridge or a Gretsch ‘space control’ type will sound better.

Absolutely this .... 

And part of the reason I got rid of the Black Tops in my 5420 was the fact they were so gutless! I replaced with Dynasonics ... but same cause.

I considered Dynasonics too....I'm not sure they are drop in size plus you rewound yours..
The HS Filtertrons seemed less hassle..
I even thought,what is I changed my mind...
I could move my HS trons to my 5422 which I do really like,,just not as much as the Green Green Gretsch..