home cinema/music - the knowledge - tell me what i need to know

nickp

right - better start by saying money is an object - so can't spend a fortune.

we have moved house.  got laminate floors.  listen to all music from streaming services or itunes. CDs are archived in the loft.  Don't watch DVDs - just sky.

was thinking about some sort of music system to listen to the radio/itunes/spotify, that would also do to make the Telly better as well so that watching "later" isn't so painful (etc).  We aren't audiophiles just would like decent sound that can go reasonably loud sometimes.

preferably wifi as otherwise speaker cables will be a PITA.  was wondering about surround sound (as everyone else has it!).  went to a friends and they had a TV bar thingy with bluetooth - thought the sound was a bit shite personally - but that could be their system.

and as usual second hand ideas better than new but hey - just educate me please if you have a minute spare and you know what I should have

cheers

Nick

gjonesy

Anything is better than the TV speakers. Not the best suggestion as this doesnt cover you for surround but you could get a mini system like a Denon DM38/9? with a decent set of bookshelf speakers. It doesnt stream but you can connect an apple device and I think it'll have a digital in to connect your TV/sky box. Pretty good at music and has DAB for radio its nice a small so not that offensive if your other half likes things nice and tidy.

fretmeister

I can just tell you what I've got

I have a Sony STR-DH820 AV Amp running into a set of Q Acoustics 2000 set (5.1).

These items were new in 2011 but were definitely at the budget end of the spectrum.

It was a HUGE improvement on the television sound. Not just in heft, but in clarity of spoken word.

I also use it for music in the lounge - I run iTunes into it and it sounds great. When getting a stereo signal the amp gives me the option of just stereo or stereo and the sub.

Very pleased with it for 3 years and I don't have any plans to upgrade.

boogieman

It's a tricky one. Most of the soundbars sound crap unless you spend a fair bit of dough. I haven't heard one yet, at any price, that handles music decently.

You're better off with a dedicated AV amp and speakers if you're going for surround, it will sound infinitely better than the cheap bundled DVD/ speaker/subwoofer set ups. But then you run into problems with finding space for all the gear.

Sorry, that's probably no help at all!

TTony

There are a few systems around now that are intended for streaming type services, though I'm not aware of systems that'll do wireless surround sound.

I've got some Sonos units.  Connect through your wifi and will stream any internet source plus all the mp3s (I'm assuming) from your media server.  You can have numerous speaker units - so a biggie in the lounge, a small one in the kitchen (etc), or just move one around the house with you.  You can also plug one into a "proper" stereo system if you want the benefit of full-size speakers.  Think they do soundbars too.

Check sonos.com.  

capo4th

A large pair of floor standers so those bullets really hit you in the chest

spark240

I went for the Onkyo AV amp, Mission front B&W Sub, and Kef Egg rears.

I think I have an older Teac AV amp if its of interest? as new in the box etc etc... 

monquixote

Based on your requirements I would suggest you get something like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yamaha-R-N500-BLACK-Network-Amplifier-Airplay/dp/B00GRZXUTU/ref=br_lf_m_1000797533_1_7_img?ie=UTF8&s=home-theater&pf_rd_p=522724627&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_i=1000797533&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1FV5AZ8GQ3E4W7CC5VWG

If that's too much then get a little Denon Mini system and add some kind of dongle like a Raspberry Pi etc. 

Above all else my advice to you is buy a pair of full range stereo speakers as large as you can put up with. You will thank me for this. 

When it comes to soundbars and surround systems my advice is steer clear. Surround sound is a gimmick and little tiny satellite speakers simply can't reproduce all the frequencies you need. Even really expensive surround systems don't usually sound that great for music as they generally pack loads of class D amplifiers into a tiny package. You can't get around the laws of physics, tiny speakers don't make a big sound.

Sambostar

Two decent hi fi grade floor standers, a centre speaker, two satellite side speakers which can be wireless and a sub.

Sub will have it's own amp as it will be active and could run the satellite or side speakers, which are only meant to sound tingly anyway and run the rest off the main amp speaker outlets at half the impedance.

Or get a dedicated AV amp.

I run the sub from the pre amp of my hi fi amp, don't have an AV amp and don't bother with anything other than my floorstanders as it's mostly music I listen to.  Have a Tannoy centre speaker, Two Kef Q35's, a BK Electronics XLS200 sub and two mission 732's. I don't use the missions or the centre.

I might get a dedicated AV amp if I get a new TV.  But I tend to get restless sitting down for more than 5 minutes.

strumjoughlamps

sounds like convenience might be priority over out and out best sound quality you can get for your money, which is fine..

what model TV do you have? so we can work out if we are connecting through the TV or through the SKY box.. do you have any games consoles? and what is the budget?

BigMonka

TTony said:

There are a few systems around now that are intended for streaming type services, though I'm not aware of systems that'll do wireless surround sound.

I've got some Sonos units.  Connect through your wifi and will stream any internet source plus all the mp3s (I'm assuming) from your media server.  You can have numerous speaker units - so a biggie in the lounge, a small one in the kitchen (etc), or just move one around the house with you.  You can also plug one into a "proper" stereo system if you want the benefit of full-size speakers.  Think they do soundbars too.

Check sonos.com.  

+1 for the Sonos, I've heard nothing but good things about them. With the Play3 system you can have the two speakers in the lounge as a stereo pair most of the time and then if you want you can take one to a different room and have it streaming different media to the first one.

FX_Munkee

Sound bars are fairly awful, despite the manufacturers best efforts to name them so they sound like something impressive. It's a few small drivers in a "designed for space" enclosure. It's never going to be good.

If you want surround sound, you'll need to either use cables or have lots of spare cash. Wireless surround speakers only seem to work when they're painfully expensive.
Sorry...

Finding a second hand AV amp seems to be relatively easy, people seem to upgrade these quite often.

Personally I use an oldish Sony AV amp, with a set of Canton "cinema" speakers (5.1) all connected to my TV, PS3/4, DVD and Freeview+ box. Freeview HD can use 5.1 sound (the BBC do it a lot) and it sounds noticeably better when watching TV.
My music is streamed off my NAS box via DLNA either through the PS3 or TV to the amp, it sounds plenty good enough for my knackered ears.
Oh and if you go down the AV amp route you'll want to make sure that your TV can do HDMI control and so can the amp, so they can turn each other on and off.

nickp

thanks guys.  based on the above.......

the telly isn't overly important.  I would like to be able to route the sky box output to the hi-fi to get better music on telly and maybe some improvement to films but not fussed about surround sound then.

so music.  will be i-tunes, and spotfy and streamed radio.  either via the ipad streamed to the amp or from the wireless network at home.

budget - will be buying second hand I guess so £500 maybe.  

would be nice to have streaming to the speakers and not wires everywhere unless you lot tell me that is a really bad idea.

going by the replies above we are therefore better getting some standing speakers (mordant short maybe) plus the right sort of amp.  

does this make sense and what do you think of the above - trying to form "a plan".  

btw you might have guessed that I know nothing about this really

TTony

nickp said:

so music.  will be i-tunes, and spotfy and streamed radio.  either via the ipad streamed to the amp or from the wireless network at home.

budget - will be buying second hand I guess so £500 maybe.  

would be nice to have streaming to the speakers and not wires everywhere unless you lot tell me that is a really bad idea.

Speakers + Amp will give you better quality sound, but then that only really counts if your source is decent.  If you're streaming non-hifi sources, you don't *need* hifi quality amp & speakers.  Obviously, you'll need an amp that can receive the streamed source and/or connect to your wifi.  Any amp should allow you to plug the TV audio into it.

Richer Sounds have plenty of set-ups for under £500 new (though I'm not sure which ones will connect to your wifi).

However, the Speakers + Amp solution will require cables which you sad you didn't want.

If no-cables is the priority, look at Sonos.  It's not as cheap, but it's completely expandable, so spend to your budget now and add additional units if/when you need them (great for streaming around the house/garden/garage).

If no-cables isn't the deciding factor, pick a system from Richer Sounds.

strumjoughlamps

nope, disagree with the floorstanding speakers, you need to demo these, so many factors and nuances that no one can truly say you need floorstanders. stick some floorstanders in a tight space and youll be all waffle and no punch, standmount on stands give more forgiving room config options.

floorstanders can be the cheaper option though when you factor in the cost of stands for standmount speakers..

you are going to struggle to avoid wires I think.. I would give the Marantz MCR510  or Denon DRAN5 a look at, plenty of budget left over for speakers be it standmount and stands or floorstanders

fretmeister

The main problem with wireless speakers is that they aren't wireless.

They still need power. And if you have to piss about with power cables then you might as well piss about with speaker cable instead.

Rocker

OP, please be aware that a system that plays music AND movies successfully, costs a great deal of money. Real world budgets, stick to one or the other. Get yourself down to your local hi-fi/audio visual store. Tell the guy your budget and buy from him if the kit he suggests delivers. Better still, essential IMHO, is to get him to install the kit in your room. He will know what to expect and will get it working as good as possible. BTW your budget is your private business but it is possible to get a decent sound for £250 upwards especially if you are prepared to buy s/h kit. For that kind of money, wired speakers are the best option IMHO.

Lodious

I have pretty strong opinions on this, so feel free to ignore / flame / ridicule...

I've never heard a home cinema system that didn't sound like total shit. Typical UK living rooms are just not big enough for the rear speakers to be far enough away to create any illusion of something behind you, and most of the electronics / speakers which win 'What HiFi' home cinema awards is just cheap nasty tat. The only reason why it doesn't work for music is because it's really low quality nasty shit and it sounds awful, but people don't notice when watching action films as long as there is tons of bass. It also makes your living room look like Richer Sounds after it's been burgled.

IMHO, it's much better to have a half decent pair of active monitors placed either side of the TV. These will provide clear dialogue, decent bass and sound great for music. It also costs less than having 6 channels of junk and looks better.

We just bought a Panasonic sound base for the TV in the front room. It cost nearly 200 quid, and it sounds better than the TV's built in speakers, but that's about it. Compared to something like a pair of Fostex PM.0.4's its just a joke.

If you buy secondhand, 2ch. stuff can work out cheap. I bought a s/h pair of active ATC's for using with the TV in the back room, and although they were not exactly cheap, I could sell them after 6 years for pretty much what I paid for them. They sound great for films or music. Home theatre stuff is worth pence after a few years at new technology comes along.

....so my vote is some half decent 2 channel wired active speakers.

Axe_meister

Hi-fi amp plus decent speakers and some sort of streaming receiver. Will make any TV sound better and will be good for music.
I have an AV amp and a HiFi amp that handles the two fronts. You can set the AV amp to direct pass through for music only.
You can pick up some decent AV amps cheap in the bay, just have a look around

nickp

rightyho - just by way of feedback.  I'm trying to convince Sue to allow us to press the button on a Marantz melody stream plus some floorstanding speakers for the lounge (the mission M33i is about the right price) from Richer sounds where we can audition them.

i've also got my eyes on a pair of secondhand mordaunt short floorstanders for the large kitchen diner and will pick up a second hand amp 

then bridge the two setups with a wifi network bridge thingy to stream audio to the kitchen diner

so you guys have been really helpful steering me away from surround sound and back to proper hifi

strumjoughlamps

nickp said:

rightyho - just by way of feedback.  I'm trying to convince Sue to allow us to press the button on a Marantz melody stream plus some floorstanding speakers for the lounge (the mission M33i is about the right price) from Richer sounds where we can audition them.

i've also got my eyes on a pair of secondhand mordaunt short floorstanders for the large kitchen diner and will pick up a second hand amp 

glad you have the Marantz on your list, it sounded pretty much ideal for your requirements and it is a great little box, my mate uses Q Acoustics on stands with his, not my choice in speaker(I am a Mission/Tannoy fan) but the sound is superb, lots of energy..

as far as Mordaunt Short go Julian Richer's marketing on this brand must be commended as I know not of one person that has liked them yet their products get 4-5 stars on WhatHiFi, although there are no user reviews and they never seem to win best buys......mmmmm make sure you audition well.