JCA22H/JCA50H volume

paul_backskin

Right, I'm sold on getting a Jet City (I think!). I love the size of the 22, but I'm concerned about the volume. I've found that 15w amps aren't quite loud enough for me, but I can't imagine 5w is going to make much difference. 

Are the the 50's noticeable louder? or should I just be jumping on a 100? Have no use for cleans.

digitalscream

The 50H has noticeably more headroom. Comparing the two is made more difficult by the fact that the 22H is louder than the 50H at all points on the volume controls up to about 4 (out of 9, don't forget) - however, that's where it starts to break up and the volume doesn't really increase much after that, whereas the 50H keeps getting louder up to about 7.

The 50H is noticeably louder. I've gigged both, and I have to say I felt more comfortable gigging with the 50H when playing without a mic + PA to reinforce it. You should also note that the 22H has a bit more gain, due to the position of the effects loop (after the volume, rather than before the tone stack on the 50H/100H).

paul_backskin

ok. great 50h it is then.

so the FX loop on the 50H does not bypass straight to the power amp section (which is usually more common)? or have I misunderstood?

ICBM

The 50 is really loud. I can't imagine it not being loud enough if you use an efficient cab - I would recommend the Harley Benton G212 Vintage, which has V30s and is what the guitarist in my band has just bought for his JCA50. He uses pretty heavy fuzz tones as well as the amp's overdrive, and it copes no problem.

The FX loop is earlier in the circuit than normal, before the tone stack and well before the master volumes. This puts it at a very high signal level and followed by some of the distortion - not ideal, for typical FX loop use - but possibly an advantage if you want to use the amp as a power amp, since the EQ and volume control will work. You could even use the channel switch for a straightforward volume boost.

paul_backskin

ICBM said:

The FX loop is earlier in the circuit than normal, before the tone stack and well before the master volumes. This puts it at a very high signal level and followed by some of the distortion - not ideal, for typical FX loop use - but possibly an advantage if you want to use the amp as a power amp, since the EQ and volume control will work. 

Yes, I've read that the signal level is different. I only use a OD, EQ ,and Noise Suppressor which can go in front.

I wonder how the amp would run with an AMT Legend 2 pre amp pedal in the loop then.....?

But to me this seems kind of illogical to the run the Loop in front of the tone stack as you might as well just have all your effects in front of the amp anyway?

digitalscream

To be fair, the 50H can be ridiculously loud even with relatively inefficient speakers. I use the Jet City 2x12" with the stock Eminence speakers which - subjectively - I'd put at slightly quieter than Celestion G12T-75s, and it's still easily capable of dealing with a loud band mix with plenty to spare.

digitalscream

paul_backskin said:

Yes, I've read that the signal level is different. I only use a OD, EQ ,and Noise Suppressor which can go in front.

I wonder how the amp would run with an AMT Legend 2 pre amp pedal in the loop then.....?

But to me this seems kind of illogical to the run the Loop in front of the tone stack as you might as well just have all your effects in front of the amp anyway?

I've done exactly that - I ran an AMT C2 into the loop, and it sounded great, but because the C2 was putting out an instrument level signal and the amp was expecting a line-level signal, there was a drop in volume.

Most of the gain stages are before the loop, so it's nowhere near the same as running effects in front of the amp...however, there's still some clipping after it so you do lose a little bit of clarity on delay repeats (for example).

ICBM

paul_backskin said:

I wonder how the amp would run with an AMT Legend 2 pre amp pedal in the loop then.....?

Don't do that unless you're bypassing the amp's preamp entirely and just going into the FX return as a power amp. As a rule, never put any distortion effect *in* the amp's loop - it can make the amp unstable and (very rarely) even cause damage.

paul_backskin said:

But to me this seems kind of illogical to the run the Loop in front of the tone stack as you might as well just have all your effects in front of the amp anyway?

Not quite, since the loop still comes after most of the distortion - but it does still seem like a poor design to me, both because of that and because it puts the loop at much too high a level for many FX units that aren't designed to handle line level.

digitalscream

ICBM said:

Not quite, since the loop still comes after most of the distortion - but it does still seem like a poor design to me, both because of that and because it puts the loop at much too high a level for many FX units that aren't designed to handle line level.

One of the reasons I went for the Decatone when the time came to upgrade to a Soldano - it's the only one in the range (I think) which has the loop after the MV.

For the record, I've found that the following pedals work really well in the loop of the 50H:

Any of the TC Electronic Toneprint range (including the Flashback and Hall of Fame, obviously)

Hardwire DL-8

Zoom MS70CDR

paul_backskin

Hmmm OK. I thought the legend 2's might be OK (as digital scream has done) as they are designed to be used as a preamp as well as a a traditional distortion pedal. Obviously the amp would need as clean a setting as possible? But I guess as is not bypassing straight to the power amp perhaps not such a good idea.

You can also change the pre amp level out on it as well to compensate for the fx loop though @digitalscream ?

digitalscream

paul_backskin said:

Hmmm OK. I thought the legend 2's might be OK (as digital scream has done) as they are designed to be used as a preamp as well as a a traditional distortion pedal. Obviously the amp would need as clean a setting as possible? But I guess as is not bypassing straight to the power amp perhaps not such a good idea.

You can also change the pre amp level out on it as well to compensate for the fx loop though @digitalscream ?

It's OK if you totally bypass the amp's preamp and use the AMT instead - however, putting it *in* the loop (ie between the amp's preamp and the tone stack) is not a good idea. The latter is what @ICBM is talking about.

paul_backskin

digitalscream;411010" said:

It's OK if you totally bypass the amp's preamp and use the AMT instead - however, putting it *in* the loop (ie between the amp's preamp and the tone stack) is not a good idea. The latter is what @ICBM is talking about.

Ah ok I did intend to mean running it straight into the fx return only. Guitar>amt>fxreturn.

Dave_Mc

digitalscream said:

Any of the TC Electronic Toneprint range (including the Flashback and Hall of Fame, obviously)

Hardwire DL-8

Zoom MS70CDR

I finally got round to using my loop. The hardwire delay does work in it, as does the hardwire reverb.

Just to slightly piggy-back on this thread- can I do any of my pedals any harm trying them in the Jet City's loop? I'm happy to give them a try and report back which ones work, but not if it fries them! )

(I chanced the Hardwires because they were supposed to be ok in the Jet City's loop, according to this thread: http://www.guitarampboard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1615 )

gubble

My two cents........

I've a 22H going through the standard Harley Benton 2x12 (simply couldn't afford the greenback version).

As long as you don't need clean it's got enough volume for most gig situations. For your regular pub gig I have my crunch channel on about 3 with the lead channel on about 4 (i use this only for solos which is a bit of a waste I know).

I too was torn between the 22 or the 50 head, I can't quite remember the reason why i chose the 22 (probably money again) but i think it's great and also with my 2x12 on it's side it makes a great looking small half stack.

 

My main advice on either amp would be to retro fit a jack socket to the footswitch and use a spare lead as they're not the most robust out there.