anybody use a drive pedal in the loop ?

Barney

I was messing about with my M13 yesterday with delays chorous ect and put one of the line 6 distortions in and was surprised i got both distorted and clean sound ...it just made me think it could be usable cos it would give the more definition in the drive...i only tried it quiet not at volume ...does anybody use it this way ?

hugbot

In theory a drive pedal is just a kind of preamp, so if it sounds good to you then go nuts.

randomhandclaps

There's no problem with this if it works for you, the one limit is that it's less shapeable (or tameable) as your amps EQ controls are (usually) before the loop.

fretmeister

I think @ICBM was warning about some drive / preamp pedals in loops.

Something about the levels being high enough on some pedals to really knacker the amp. Not sure if that is for all drive pedals or not.

hotpickups

Yes I remember reading that too

fretmeister;423891" said:

I think @ICBM was warning about some drive / preamp pedals in loops.

Something about the levels being high enough on some pedals to really knacker the amp. Not sure if that is for all drive pedals or not.

mike_l

Using it directly into the return on the loop should be fine, using it in the loop completely (IE between the loop send and return) can damage the amp.

@ICBM can tell you why better than I can.

RaymondLin

W

mike_l;424178" said:

Using it directly into the return on the loop should be fine, using it in the loop completely (IE between the loop send and return) can damage the amp.

@ICBM can tell you why better than I can.

When you say in the former - directly into the loop, you mean directly into the front of the amp right?

mike_l

Directly into the return on the loop, so you're by-passing the amp's pre-amp section.

Giving this

guitar - FX return

not

Guitar - ampin-FXout-dirtpedal-FXreturn

as the second can damage the amp

 

RaymondLin

I guess it's like you can't supercharge an already supercharged signal.

mike_l

Pretty much, or something'll go bang.

RaymondLin

So I guess all these people who likes their OD AFTER modulations have their modulations at the front of the amp.

Since I can't see how they would all have an FX loop in their amp and all bypassing the amp's pre-amp section, chances are they are all using amps with no FX loop and or just not using the FX loop altogether.

At the moment I have my board set up so that there is a clean boost after the modulation.  This is fine if I plug it straight to the front of the amp, but actually the board has a FX bypass switch which I can take just the modulation section of the board and put it in the FX loop of the amp, taking the Icarus boost with it inside the loop.  I think I need to put a big sticker on the pedal to warn myself not to press that switch if I am doing that.  Or take away that pedal completely!

Barney

Oops better not do that again then ...does it damage the amp straight away....i had my line 6 M13 in and just used it by accident really and thought it sounded quite cool....like a clean and distorted signal at the same time..

ChrisMusic

What amp are you using ?

It sounds like you may have a parallel FX loop on it, if it is mixing your clean signal with the M13 distortion.

You probably need @ICBM to explain the risks of RF instability, and whether it might be an issue in this case, or not...

monquixote

I think ICBM mentioned it could make ultrasonic feedback which hurts the amp.

TheMarlin

I put drive pedals and pre amps in the front of the amp, and modulation/delay through the effect loop.

Mostly, I use non MV amps with no effects loop.

Marlin

randomhandclaps

monquixote said:

I think ICBM mentioned it could make ultrasonic feedback which hurts the amp.

The term 'ultrasonic feedback' makes it sound like a technique used by Kevin Shields.

ICBM

If the amp is still working you probably haven't done any harm, but it's not a good idea. While it's fairly rare, you *can* damage the amp like this.

The problem is caused by signal from the power amp getting back to the preamp - which it usually does at least slightly, by coupling through the power supply or close wiring - then having a lot of gain added by the distortion in the FX loop, which can make the amp unstable and feed back on itself. If it self-oscillates outside the audio range it can fry things because excess power can be generated in places it shouldn't be.

The Line 6 *might* be less prone to the risk of that than an analogue distortion because there will be a small amount of latency in the digital signal which might make feedback less likely, but I wouldn't count on it.

I've only come across a very few amps blown like this, but it's more than just a theoretical problem.

Barney

ICBM;424381" said:

If the amp is still working you probably haven't done any harm, but it's not a good idea. While it's fairly rare, you *can* damage the amp like this.

The problem is caused by signal from the power amp getting back to the preamp - which it usually does at least slightly, by coupling through the power supply or close wiring - then having a lot of gain added by the distortion in the FX loop, which can make the amp unstable and feed back on itself. If it self-oscillates outside the audio range it can fry things because excess power can be generated in places it shouldn't be.

The Line 6 *might* be less prone to the risk of that than an analogue distortion because there will be a small amount of latency in the digital signal which might make feedback less likely, but I wouldn't count on it.

I've only come across a very few amps blown like this, but it's more than just a theoretical problem.

Thanks thats something i didnt realise ....ill be keeping my drives out 9f the loop from now