Audiophiles - Review of different hard drives affecting the sound...

Rocker

I'm a little surprised that you guys reacted as you did when similarities in audio and guitars are pointed out. By attacking me personally @ICBM, you lost points in the debate. I am an audiophile and consider myself a guitar player. Others may disagree. So I can see the issue from both sides. And enjoy the jokes that each side makes of the other. At least debating this topic is more fun than watching Ipswich Town -v- Southampton.....

digitalscream

Rocker said:

I'm a little surprised that you guys reacted as you did when similarities in audio and guitars are pointed out. By attacking me personally @ICBM, you lost points in the debate. I am an audiophile and consider myself a guitar player. Others may disagree. So I can see the issue from both sides. And enjoy the jokes that each side makes of the other. At least debating this topic is more fun than watching Ipswich Town -v- Southampton.....

Gawd...no, there are massive differences between the examples you cited.. They've all been pointed out. Can you not see that?

ICBM

Rocker said:

I'm a little surprised that you guys reacted as you did when similarities in audio and guitars are pointed out. By attacking me personally @ICBM, you lost points in the debate. I am an audiophile and consider myself a guitar player. Others may disagree. So I can see the issue from both sides. And enjoy the jokes that each side makes of the other. At least debating this topic is more fun than watching Ipswich Town -v- Southampton.....

I did not attack you personally, I pointed out a problem you have with deliberately twisting some of the things I have said in the past in order to imply that I agree with some things you believe.

ToneControl

the article is based on pseudo science

no analysis of any possible differences would be meaningful without a full assessment of the encoding algortihms and file formats, and an explaination of how different reliable digital storage mechanisms could possibly vary the contents of the digital files delivered to the DAC, with all the error correction and detection methods built into modern kit

Guitars are made of vibrating parts and electromagnetic pickups, and have thousands of nuances to vary. A digital file can either be retrieved intact or not, this technology flies planes and drives cars, it's not made using 1950s-style springs and bits of wire and magnets.

If the article is real, it's another example of the bullshit "i'm the high priest, listen to me" audiophile crap that has been spun since I was a kid to achieve unearned gravitas and to make money from the gullible

CabbageCat

Rocker said:

It is important to point out the fact that I am not defending the claims made by the writer of the review of the hard drives. But I am pointing out that guitarists are quick to highlight the apparent foolishness of audiophiles yet are themselves guilty of the very same foolishness re: guitars, guitar parts, strings etc. The fact that the audiophiles so called 'foolishness' costs more than the guitar equivalent is usually the main thrust of the argument. And is the punch line in the joke. Remember the joke works both ways. And remember too that the general public see guitar players on stage. Most of them do not know the difference between lead guitar, bass guitar or rhythm guitar. Or that you can play the same chords on an acoustic guitar. They are guitars. Full stop. As I wrote earlier: people in glasshouses............

A difference in guitar parts can logically make a difference to the sound a guitar makes. A difference in hard drives is akin to a difference in the paper that the sheet music the guitarist is using is written on.

chrispy108

ICBM said:

Rocker said:

I'm a little surprised that you guys reacted as you did when similarities in audio and guitars are pointed out. By attacking me personally @ICBM, you lost points in the debate. I am an audiophile and consider myself a guitar player. Others may disagree. So I can see the issue from both sides. And enjoy the jokes that each side makes of the other. At least debating this topic is more fun than watching Ipswich Town -v- Southampton.....

I did not attack you personally, I pointed out a problem you have with deliberately twisting some of the things I have said in the past in order to imply that I agree with some things you believe.

I see no attack by @ICBM on you @Rocker, looks like you read what you want to read, as well as hearing what you want to hear...

Skipped

Last year I started listening to 24/192 versions of my favourite albums.
Shortly after buying a usb DAC for my laptop I started to notice comments on forums saying that the digital files must be on the main hard drive - not on a usb hard drive - because the second usb port may be on the same circuit as the usb DAC.
I have so far ignored this....

My advice is: Just relax and listen.
If you discover that you are now listening to the whole album, and that when it finishes you listen to another recording, and you again listen to the  whole freaking  album, and that this is something that you have not experienced for 20 years, then I am going to conclude that you have done something right - whatever that something is.

Just keep an open mind.
Is Neil Young crazy? Possibly
Is Neil young right? Possibly

Drew_TNBD

Rocker said:

It is important to point out the fact that I am not defending the claims made by the writer of the review of the hard drives. But I am pointing out that guitarists are quick to highlight the apparent foolishness of audiophiles yet are themselves guilty of the very same foolishness re: guitars, guitar parts, strings etc. The fact that the audiophiles so called 'foolishness' costs more than the guitar equivalent is usually the main thrust of the argument. And is the punch line in the joke. Remember the joke works both ways. And remember too that the general public see guitar players on stage. Most of them do not know the difference between lead guitar, bass guitar or rhythm guitar. Or that you can play the same chords on an acoustic guitar. They are guitars. Full stop. As I wrote earlier: people in glasshouses............

Hang on...

Are you saying that strings do not make a difference to the final tone?

Axe_meister

Skipped said:

Last year I started listening to 24/192 versions of my favourite albums.
Shortly after buying a usb DAC for my laptop I started to notice comments on forums saying that the digital files must be on the main hard drive - not on a usb hard drive - because the second usb port may be on the same circuit as the usb DAC.
I have so far ignored this....

Lol. The fact is the DAC will have a read a head buffer so unless the USB is soooooo saturated that the DAC can't get the info quick enough there will be zero difference, even USB 1 would be able to keep up with reading music from a USB stick and writing to a USB DAC.

ToneControl

Axe_meister said:

Skipped said:

Last year I started listening to 24/192 versions of my favourite albums.
Shortly after buying a usb DAC for my laptop I started to notice comments on forums saying that the digital files must be on the main hard drive - not on a usb hard drive - because the second usb port may be on the same circuit as the usb DAC.
I have so far ignored this....

Lol. The fact is the DAC will have a read a head buffer so unless the USB is soooooo saturated that the DAC can't get the info quick enough there will be zero difference, even USB 1 would be able to keep up with reading music from a USB stick and writing to a USB DAC.

I was playing mp3 files straight from floppy disks in the early 90s, (when hard disks were smaller than today's memory sticks)

Is anyone really thinking that modern computers have trouble handling an mp3?
you can record many tracks of WAVs in parallel to a normal PC's hard disk now

PolarityMan

Axe_meister said:

Skipped said:

Last year I started listening to 24/192 versions of my favourite albums.
Shortly after buying a usb DAC for my laptop I started to notice comments on forums saying that the digital files must be on the main hard drive - not on a usb hard drive - because the second usb port may be on the same circuit as the usb DAC.
I have so far ignored this....

Lol. The fact is the DAC will have a read a head buffer so unless the USB is soooooo saturated that the DAC can't get the info quick enough there will be zero difference, even USB 1 would be able to keep up with reading music from a USB stick and writing to a USB DAC.

Actually in that particular case you might imagine that if either device was bus powered then power variation on the rails might introduce cross talk on the analogue signal in connected devices. Suspect it wouldn't be an issue for self powered devices though.

chrispy108

Axe_meister said:

Skipped said:

Last year I started listening to 24/192 versions of my favourite albums.
Shortly after buying a usb DAC for my laptop I started to notice comments on forums saying that the digital files must be on the main hard drive - not on a usb hard drive - because the second usb port may be on the same circuit as the usb DAC.
I have so far ignored this....

Lol. The fact is the DAC will have a read a head buffer so unless the USB is soooooo saturated that the DAC can't get the info quick enough there will be zero difference, even USB 1 would be able to keep up with reading music from a USB stick and writing to a USB DAC.

From a noise point of view though, if they're sharing a power supply/ground, then a bad USB hard drive/DAC could introduce noise into the audio, so there's actually a mechanism for explaining that.

If they're saying that the USB isn't fast enough/consistent enough to get the audio off 'smoothly' then agree it's nuts.

Axe_meister

The thing is any noise at the digital stage will not make a difference, error correction will kick in. Only noise introduced at the analog stage will make any difference. I have about 10 different USB devices hanging off my pic from printers to backup disks to wifi and blutooth devices. Now my Avid MBox 2 has to this day (bus powered) never experienced any noise/hum/audio degradation.

Rocker

Guys, I am not saying anything. Only pointing out the fact that we guitarists are as guilty as audiophiles in finding differences or improvements in components or peripheral devices. As to the OP quote, none of us can agree or disagree with him on his test conclusions. Unless we carried out the same tests ourselves. Logic suggests there should be no difference. Logic is probably right but there is a small percentage chance that there is a difference. Without testing the drives ourselves, the best we can accurately state is that there are probably no differences.

fretmeister

Rocker;479748" said:

Guys, I am not saying anything. Only pointing out the fact that we guitarists are as guilty as audiophiles in finding differences or improvements in components or peripheral devices.



As to the OP quote, none of us can agree or disagree with him on his test conclusions. Unless we carried out the same tests ourselves. Logic suggests there should be no difference. Logic is probably right but there is a small percentage chance that there is a difference. Without testing the drives ourselves, the best we can accurately state is that there are probably no differences.

Irony overload in 5, 4, 3,.....

Danny1969

ToneControl said:

Axe_meister said:

Skipped said:

Last year I started listening to 24/192 versions of my favourite albums.
Shortly after buying a usb DAC for my laptop I started to notice comments on forums saying that the digital files must be on the main hard drive - not on a usb hard drive - because the second usb port may be on the same circuit as the usb DAC.
I have so far ignored this....

Lol. The fact is the DAC will have a read a head buffer so unless the USB is soooooo saturated that the DAC can't get the info quick enough there will be zero difference, even USB 1 would be able to keep up with reading music from a USB stick and writing to a USB DAC.

I was playing mp3 files straight from floppy disks in the early 90s, (when hard disks were smaller than today's memory sticks)

Is anyone really thinking that modern computers have trouble handling an mp3?
you can record many tracks of WAVs in parallel to a normal PC's hard disk now

A floppy drive was 1.4Mb so that would have been very low bit rate MP3's you listened to ... maybe you meant a superdisk which was about 120mb I think ....

mart

Rocker said:

... Unless we carried out the same tests ourselves. Logic suggests there should be no difference. Logic is probably right but there is a small percentage chance that there is a difference. ...

This is absolutely right. Newton may have seen an apple fall, and there may be all the evidence in the world for some form of gravity, but there is a small percentage chance that this is wrong, and if we focus enough on this small percentage chance, we can roll back centuries of advances in human knowledge, and believe that Russ Andrews is right, and that whatever solid state device Rocker is using will have an effect on the sound that I get from my music player. That's progress, folks.

chrispy108

What else do I need to test for myself @Rocker?

I've never eaten rat poison, so maybe it's fine for me?

I've never driven a Ferrari, so maybe my Focus is actually quicker?

I've never won the lottery, so maybe no one does?

Or perhaps I could use common sense, and the shared knowledge humanity has built up over millenia?

PolarityMan

Danny1969;479802" said:

ToneControl said:



Axe_meister said:



Skipped said:

Last year I started listening to 24/192 versions of my favourite albums.

Shortly after buying a usb DAC for my laptop I started to notice comments on forums saying that the digital files must be on the main hard drive - not on a usb hard drive - because the second usb port may be on the same circuit as the usb DAC.

I have so far ignored this....



Lol. The fact is the DAC will have a read a head buffer so unless the USB is soooooo saturated that the DAC can't get the info quick enough there will be zero difference, even USB 1 would be able to keep up with reading music from a USB stick and writing to a USB DAC.












I was playing mp3 files straight from floppy disks in the early 90s, (when hard disks were smaller than today's memory sticks)



Is anyone really thinking that modern computers have trouble handling an mp3?

you can record many tracks of WAVs in parallel to a normal PC's hard disk now










A floppy drive was 1.4Mb so that would have been very low bit rate MP3's you listened to ... maybe you meant a superdisk which was about 120mb I think ....

Pkzip can disk span so you can get that proper old school warmth

Rocker

The trashcan is the best place to store your MP3s on your computer. Calm down guys. It is hard to type when laughing so much......