Free speech...Oh the irony.

Wolfetone

I was listening to Radio 4 on the way home and ironically, there are now supporters of terrorism claiming their right to free speech in France. They are saying that they too, should be able to say what they like.

As unpalatable as it may seem, have they got a point? What about those that hate gay people? Should they have the right of free speech and be allowed to express their own personally held opinion.....after all they haven't hurt anyone with their words have they?

VimFuego

so long as they are not inciting others to carry out actual acts of hatred then yes, they should be free to say what they will. And others should also be free to shout them down, mock them and ridicule them.

jd0272

Wolfetone said:

I was listening to Radio 4 on the way home and ironically, there are now supporters of terrorism claiming their right to free speech in France. They are saying that they too, should be able to say what they like.

As unpalatable as it may seem, have they got a point? What about those that hate gay people? Should they have the right of free speech and be allowed to express their own personally held opinion.....after all they haven't hurt anyone with their words have they?

I thought free speech was practiced in recent times by supporters of terrorism anyway? Is it not just any other fckr who's not allowed to open their mouths without fear of being dispatched? Perhaps I am 'sheltered'.

digitalscream

In the UK, there are very specific exceptions to freedom of expression. From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#United_Kingdom

It's interesting that we place the burden of proof in a defamation suit on the defendant. I wonder how long it'll be before that applies to those accused of terrorism-related crimes, too?

Panama_Jack666

Freedom of speech isn't about saying what you want. It's about hearing things you might necessarily want to hear.

Wolfetone

digitalscream said:

In the UK, there are very specific exceptions to freedom of expression. From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#United_Kingdom

It's interesting that we place the burden of proof in a defamation suit on the defendant. I wonder how long it'll be before that applies to those accused of terrorism-related crimes, too?

That's an interesting link. 

Reading the following passage,

sending another any article which is indecent or grossly offensive with an intent to cause distress or anxiety (which has been used to prohibit speech of a racist or anti-religious nature)

...makes me wonder if the Charlie magazine would have been severely prosecuted had it been a UK publication? 

VimFuego

possibly it would've been prosecuted over here, however that doesn't mean the prosecution would've been the right thing to do. Just cos it's illegal doesn't make it wrong.

Rocker

Panama_Jack666 said:

Freedom of speech isn't about saying what you want. It's about hearing things you might necessarily not want to hear.

Corrected for accuracy....

chillidoggy

Rocker said:

Panama_Jack666 said:

Freedom of speech isn't about saying what you want. It's about hearing things you might necessarily not want to hear.

Corrected for accuracy....

I think it's both. Saying what you want, and hearing what you might not want to hear.

Skipped

Wolfetone said:

Free speech...Oh the irony.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697194/Outrage-France-country-world-ban-pro-Palestine-demos.html

xSkarloey

I hate to reduce this to one fairly pat quotation, but it's times like this I keep thinking of the Clash line that " You have the right to free speech. As long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it."

That gets us precisely nowhere, but the bitterness of it rings so true for me at the moment.

Richardj

Given the general strength of feeling in France at the moment this totally isn't about the Isreal/Palestine issue.  It is the Paris police predicting that it will be fighting on the streets and wanting to avoid it.  Civil order rather than political. Look at the bigger picture of political/religious feeling here (in France), especially after the events of last week, and it is completely understandable to keep things calm.  Their timing really isn't good to be going at each other is it?

Fazer

the story is from july, it's one of the hysterical ones from the time with the daily mail joining in

and there is a clear difference between free speech and preventing riots

not to mention a clear difference between free speech and murdering people

Drew_TNBD

Wolfetone said:

I was listening to Radio 4 on the way home and ironically, there are now supporters of terrorism claiming their right to free speech in France. They are saying that they too, should be able to say what they like.

As unpalatable as it may seem, have they got a point? What about those that hate gay people? Should they have the right of free speech and be allowed to express their own personally held opinion.....after all they haven't hurt anyone with their words have they?

Yes. They should have the right to say whatever they want, no matter how bigoted or ignorant or unpalatable.

They should not have the right or justification to murder people.

littlegreenman

Wolfetone said:

I was listening to Radio 4 on the way home and ironically, there are now supporters of terrorism claiming their right to free speech in France. They are saying that they too, should be able to say what they like.

As unpalatable as it may seem, have they got a point? What about those that hate gay people? Should they have the right of free speech and be allowed to express their own personally held opinion.....after all they haven't hurt anyone with their words have they?

Yes, they absolutely should have that right. It's the same one that gives me the right to point at them and call them an idiot, or laugh in their general direction, or draw cartoons about them.

If an idea or ideology can't handle a bit of a piss-take, I'd say it's on pretty shaky ground to begin with. My "lifestyle choice"* is ridiculed all the time and with tacit public approval. I let it wash over me and don't give a fuck, as long as no-one's trying to hurt me for it, 's'no problem...



* Heterosexual white male, in case you were wondering

Drew_TNBD

YAY! I GOT A WIZDUMB!

Lixarto

littlegreenman said:

* Heterosexual white male, in case you were wondering

On this forum?!

littlegreenman

Lixarto said:

littlegreenman said:

* Heterosexual white male, in case you were wondering

On this forum?!

I know! Who'd have thunk it?!?!?!?!

Drew_TNBD

Lixarto said:

littlegreenman said:

* Heterosexual white male, in case you were wondering

On this forum?!

Who are you!?! Wesley Snipes?!

chillidoggy

And 'free speech' went out years ago. You simply cannot say just anything without fear of prosecution these days, successive laws have seen to that.

Snap

Free speech exists, but societ'ys laws moderate by what is deemed, over time, to be socially acceptable, as with behaviour.

Everyone has the right, in the UK, to freely express themselves, but equally, society (common law) has the means to repsond to that in a way that reflects the common attitude to what you are expressing.

Your expression only gets restrained when it is inciting crime, or being indecent, both of which are decided by the rule of law, which in turn evolves from social behaviour and attitude (through statute, therefore parliament, and case law)

a good thing all round I think.

however, all this je suis Charlie stuff - well I for one am not Charlie, I'm Snap.